Template talk:Infobox College Wrestling Team

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Template:Infobox College Wrestling Team page.
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[edit] National Championships

Can we add a parameter for non-NCAA national championships? i.e., Pre-NCAA era? My Oregon State Beavers won a national championship in 1924, but as this template stands there would be no place to add that. Also, confrence tourament champions should probably be changed to just confrence championships in general, or add regular season and tourament championships. Oregon State has won 45 confrence championships, but I have no idea how many of them were tournaments. VegaDark 02:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I made a few changes, I hope that is ok. We may want to simply list a number instead of each year for some of the championship parameters. Also "NCAA Tournament Champions" may want to be renamed to "NCAA Tournament Championships". VegaDark 04:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template

I don't feel comfortable with this template and would like to take time in the next week or so to re-design it. The small group of college wrestling wikipedians have been using a different box, not formalized yet as a template, with a lot of satisfaction. Ashlux unilaterally decide to switch what has been used to a college basketball template. I'm willing to do the extra work involved in changing this template from basketball to what we have been using, but honestly resent having to do it. Examples of the box currently used for wrestling is at Iowa Hawkeyes wrestling and Minnesota Golden Gophers wrestling. I hope I'm not being out of line, but I have worked very hard at upgrading the college wrestling articles and I am willing to collaborate with others to improve them further, but resent not being collaborated with in a manner I would expect from a fellow wikipedian. Johnn 7 00:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

What exactly is your issue(s) with this new infobox, it is very similar to the content in other team infoboxes (see Category:Sports_infobox_templates)? I would like you to be comfortable with the template, but more specifics are necessary. On another topic (and I am not trying to be offensive, insulting, hostile, etc) but there is no ownership of Wikipedia articles (see WP:OWN). -- Ash Lux (talk | contribs) 03:33, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I do appreciate the work you've been doing on Wikipedia. Thanks! -- Ash Lux (talk | contribs) 03:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

My problem with the new info box is that there was already an box with info being used in the articles. There was no need to change it. It was probably time to create a template for the wrestling articles, but a model was already in place. A box for another sport was not necessary or appropriate. I completely understand that there is no ownership of Wikipedia articles, but that doesn't give free reign to edit long standing work. I would not presume to go to Template:Infobox Planet and change the infobox there without at least discussing it with those involved. For me, that's just common courtesy. Johnn 7 03:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Aside from me not consulting a group of people focused on improving college wrestling Wikipedians, what exactly is your problem with the newly created infobox (the version I am referring to is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_College_Wrestling_Team&oldid=115480388). Or are you upset with it out of principle? -- Ash Lux (talk | contribs) 03:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how this turned into a dispute. I'm not trying to revert anyone's work. I see myself as simply bringing the articles back to where they were last week. I feel you are trying to put the burden of proof on me to explain why the original work is better, however, I feel the burden of proof is on you to explain why your changes are better. I did not come to these wrestling articles and change them, you did. So, in response to your question of what my problem is with your edits, I would ask what your problem was with the original work in the first place. Johnn 7 04:04, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

  • No offense, but the infobox on those articles is about 10 times worse than this template was before you edited it. Just because you have been using one thing on a couple of pages doesn't mean we should continue to use it now that we are making a template. Secondly, that box includes results from individual seasons. Am I supposed to include a section on each of OSU's 85 seasons? There is no explanation. Third, the infobox doesn't include much of the information that people would actually be interested in, such as national title count, all-americans, etc which this box did before you edited it. I'm interested in collaborating and coming to a consensus on what this template should be, but the answer is not to change the entire template to match a version on those pages that is much less useful that what we had. I recommend you revert your own changes until we come up with a consensus here as to what the template should look like. VegaDark 00:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

As there is obviously some disagreement as to what this infobox should look like & include, let's discuss here. I think the parameters should be:

{{Infobox College Wrestling Team
|name = 
|logo = 
|logo_size = 
|university = 
|conference = 
|conference_short = 
|division = 
|city = 
|stateabb = 
|state = 
|coach = 
|tenure =
|arena = 
|capacity =
|nickname = 
|color1 = 
|color2 = 
|color3 =
|fontcolor =
|hex1 = 
|hex2 = 
|hex3 = 
|Dualmeetrecord = (All-time dual meet record)
|Nationalchampionships = (number, not years, and include both NCAA and pre-NCAA championshps)
|Individualchampion = (number of NCAA individual national champions)
|All-Americans = (number of NCAA all-americans)
|Conferencechampionships = (number of conference championships, not years)
|updatedasof = (this can include when the above information has been last updated)
}}

Years of winning championships can be included in the body of the article, we don't need to list every year in the infobox. I'm also not sure we need to include info on the current season in the infobox, that can also go in the body of the article. VegaDark 00:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the years of winning championships doesn't need to be in the info box. I would say the same for number of championships, team and individual, and conference titles. All of that information could be easily put in text form in the main article. The division of a conference is also not necessary since there are no wrestling conferences that are split into divisions. I think the infobox should be a source of quick useful information. Details can go in the article. A team's current record and latest NCAA/conference finish is a good piece of quick information about how that team has been doing. Someone shouldn't have to read an entire article just to see if a team is currently doing well. I would liken it to a player's infobox including their current team and number. It just makes sense and is easy to do. Also, current performance is a difficult thing to include in a main article because it is just a short list of numbers, not something comfortably fit in a paragraph and would be, in my opinion, a NPOV and vandalism magnet. Last season the team records were updated by several people, but NPOV was kept to a minimum since there was no space for extraneous comments. Information for the last 85 years obviously belongs in the main article. Also, I've never understood the need for color boxes in the infobox. A person should be able to see the general color scheme from the logo. What purpose do the boxes serve? Johnn 7 12:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please finish your work

Not to complain, but I came accross an article with this template and it looks bad with so many fields not works right. I fixed the "university" field. Who ever made it needs to finish their work, the empty syntax part has fields in it that are not in the actual infobox, and there is no "update date" filed in the empty syntax. Additionally parser functions should be used for all fields. Aboutmovies 01:28, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I am still very unsatisfied with what information this template currently contains and think the version I created a while back was leaps and bounds ahead of what this is currently. I plan on adding this information back in within a week if nobody has any complaints. VegaDark (talk) 03:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Just so people here know, I got so frustrated with Ashlux that I've basically stopped editing Wikipedia. I had plans to add articles for five or six wrestling teams a year and to maintain them during the season, but it just wasn't worth it. I had posted an article for Iowa State, but I removed it. I guess you can do anything with the boxes you want. I just don't care anymore.Johnn 7 (talk) 16:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)