Template talk:Indian image rotation

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[edit] Problems

• The Andamans image should be removed. I have left my comments on WP:PINSPC, but as far as I can tell it has been run through a blue filter and, in addition, had its blue saturation value increased. The result, I feel, is a fake blue.
• The Golden Langur is not the world's rarest monkey. I'm sure a monkey like the Delacour langur (which I recall is critically endangered in the IUCN classification) should be rarer.
• The Indian Giant squirrel is found in forests all over peninsular India (south of the Ganges), not just in the Western Ghats. (The WP article also includes NE India in its range; that, however, I think is incorrect.) Will look up refs later. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:39, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

PS Here is the IUCN page for the Delacour langur; note that total world population is approx. 270-300 individuals. For the Golden langur, whose IUCN classification is endangered, a total Indian population of 1,064 (living in 130 groups) was recorded during the period 1988 to 1998 (and published in 2001; will add results from paper to main article on Golden langur). It is obviously endangered. But maybe some event happened in the last five or six years that has made them more endangered ... Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

PPS I've added some details to Gee's golden langur. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

PPPS I have corrected Indian giant squirrel as well. Please note: the convention in mammal studies is not to capitalize "giant" and "squirrel." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shabby additions

user:Priyanath has just added by way of trial the accompanying image of the wheel of Konarak.

Stone carving at Konark Sun Temple, UNESCO World Heritage site.^[1] Carving represents one of the wheels of the chariot carrying Surya, the Sun God.

This is the problem I had feared in the first place. Here is a shabby image, which was selected on WP:PINSPC after one comment (when likely no one was paying attention). I left the following comment there:

• Strongly oppose This is a shabby image, out of focus and leaves out the important details. Please delist. It has likely been sharpened in post-processing. If you want to see what is missing in the image, please see this image

The same comment applies here. I urge user:Priyanath to remove the image ASAP. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 05:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

And this is the problem I had feared in the first place - fowler opposing every image addition by myself and certain editors. I believe it's a very worthy, clear image, and will let the community decide. If there's an even better image we can replace it with, I'm all for it. ॐ Priyanath talk 15:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

If you think it is worthy why don't you submit it to FPC and see what sorts of reviews you get? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Can the name be changed to something that tells us it is India-related? At the moment it sounds like one of those technical templates, "Image file." Gizza^{Discuss ©} 06:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

We could try "{{Indian image}}". You are free to rename it if you wish. Saravask 01:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe either "{{Indian image rotation}}" or "{{Image rotation for India}}" would be better and apparent. - KNM ^Talk 01:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. Saravask 01:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The logistics - brainstorming

My take - The rotation has slowly but surely started off in the right direction. imo, we should now start stepping slowly into other sections. However, with the addition of pics to the list, let us be a little conservative. The culture section is already much more fairly represented these days than it has ever been in the past. So let us not be in a mad rush to 'try and deliver super-speedy justice to all the 'wronged' states'. Let us add no more than one pic per state per section. A very good place to start the search for the right pics would be the state's own articles. Then we have the pictures under the respective state categories over at wikicommons.

Then we of course have flickr and other internet sources. All of us could also try sending emails to state cultural organisations. A couple of days ago, I sent emails to a few Mizo organisations requesting them to upload pics to wikipedia. One of them replied quite enthusiastically but we'll have to wait and watch to see if the enthusiasm translates into any real pictures. But surely, no harm in trying. If we could all pick a state or two, atleast the usually under represented ones, we could probably get a handful of pictures good enough for the India page.

1. How to rotate

1.1 The other thing of concern is that the lists in the template(in edit mode) can get very long and unwieldy considering the number of states and union territories we have. So one idea may be to limit the number of states in each section. ie., if a state doesnt get represented in the culture section, it will be in another section (fl and fauna or history or something else). For example, say we freeze {{India image rotation |culture}} right now, we'd have like 7 or 8 states represented. Pics from these 7 or 8 states will not make it to any other section. Other sections will display pics from the remaining states. The advantage of doing it this way is that -- eventually when we have rotation in place for every(almost) section, the india article will have pics from across the country.

However, this whole 1.1 is based on my assumption that adding 28+11 pics to each {{India image rotation |section}} will be unwieldy and interfere in the maintanence and usage of the template itself. If this assumption is not true(?? saravask, ganesh) then maybe there's not too much wisdom in it.

1.2, 1.3..... - feel free to add (but not here, add it below in your own comments)

2. Retiring pics

Once the rate of addition of pics(one per state) slows down and things settle down and the process finds its balace(it may take atleast 2-3 months, i reckon), we will then 'archive' the entire set of pics and replace them with fresh ones(provided we find a worthy replacement). The 'fresh set' will then have atleast 3 or even 6 months time so that each picture gets displayed for a reasonable number of times and a reasonable period of time each time. For this we may consider increasing the change interval to something like once in 3 days or even once a week from the present daily rotations. Increasing the change interval will also ensure that the article itself doesnt look to be in 'perpetual motion', a concern some people have already raised (Ragib I think, on the India talk page).

3. Nominating pics

Right now we're doing with good faith nominations from active editors. It may be prudent to delegate the responsibility to any volunteers or wikiprojects. For example, the Karnataka wikiproject (whose members are most familiar with Karnataka related articles and images) can be given the responsibility of coming up with atleast five images (the very best they can find) to represent Karnataka every three months.

Whoever takes the responsibility of one or more states/UTs will be the last word on the inclusion or exclusion of a picture. If somebody wants to add or remove a pic from a 'state list' they will have to convince the 'owner' of that list. For example, if the Ktaka wikiproject is entrusted with Karnataka pics, and somebody wants to replace say, the Mysore palace pic with another one, they will have to convince the Ktaka wikiproject and all related discussion will take place on the Ktaka wikiproject talk pages.. not here. This will ensure that the process doesnt get disrupted each time somebody throws a fit for some reason over a pic. There will of course be the occasional error of judgement on the part of the "owners", but for the most part, I think it will be smooth sailing. For example, we had ambuj manning the India portal and nobody had any problems.

3.1

Above, I've used WP:Ktaka in my example. Now, I am certainly aware that not all state wikiprojects are as active as Ktaka, TN, Bengal or Kerala projects. So we certainly can do with volunteers stepping forward and offering to man 3-4 states each.

These are my initial thoughts. Will add to this in course of time. Everyone please add yours and I am sure we will find some common ground. Sarvagnya 05:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it's been going very well, considering the history here. Just a couple comments, as I'm about to get too busy during the next several days to say any more. One is that we will of course need to have some process for nominating and adding new photos. One possibility would be at Wikipedia:WikiProject_India, and from there drawing in the regional projects. I'm not sure about rotating out all the pics, unless truly better ones are found in every case. But definitely let's work on constantly improving. This is just a start, and a surprisingly good one. Also, we need to discuss the rotation time. Fowler changed Saravask's original one day for each image to one hour. That makes the page too unstable, imo. But I think it's worth a discussion. Then, some hidden comment notes in the template stating it's purpose, and perhaps adding hidden comment tags stating what region each regional image represents, since I've already seen some confusion there. Finally, I would appreciate more from Saravask, if he's so inclined, since he was bold enough to do this, and has suggested some possibilities regarding process. Cheers, ॐ Priyanath talk 14:46, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I need to take a break. You guys should do what you think needs to be done. Saravask 19:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia cannot have owner of lists. It is ironical that you want a system where someone is owning something, no? Somewhat like how you made up a rule of 1 picture per state, labeled sakuntala image as an image for Kerala, deemed it not worthy, and removed it - all the time going against established consensus. I find this entire thing frustrating and in bad faith. --Blacksun 10:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)