Talk:Indra

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this article needs some cleanup, i.e. the various sources must be cleanly separated and specified. dab (ᛏ) 12:12, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Anon comment

Some anonymous writer just put this on the page:

(sorry but Surya- the Sun GOD is the sun of Lord Brahma, and Not Indra. Surya )or Surya Dev) is also the Father of Lord Yama ( the greatest Judge and the Lord of Narka- hell according to the christian faith)

I'm not familiar with the subject, so I don't know if this is true or not.--Shanel 21:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

It's true that Surya is the sun god per-se in Vedic belief. But there's nothing in the article that claims that Indra is the sun god. There's a bit about Indra being derived from a solar deity, but that doesn't contradict Surya being the primary sun god. It's also true that Indra is the son of Dyeus Pita, and that Indra achieved his rank by slaying his father. The bit about Yama sounds a little strange to me; according to Vedic legends, Yama was not a god initially, but rather was the first mortal to die. Yama did rule over the underworld (being elevated to divine status following his death), but didn't really act as much of a judge; your obedience to rta determined whether you went to dwell among the gods or in hell, and Yama just escorted you to one place or the other. Overall, I'm not real sure what the anon poster was trying to get across with his comment. --Clay Collier 22:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Indo-Aryan info is messy

Don't know where to start, but I'll keep this short. So many people seem to throw around the word "Zoroastrian" and have little to no idea about Zoroastrianism ipso facto. I'm glad its even here, but not as a novelty side note... I'd like someone to give their reasons behind the information:

"The battle between Indra and Vritra is depicted in ancient Iranian religions such as Zoroastrianism. Some think that the Indo-Aryans settled not only India but also Iran."

Some think??! Umm, Iran=Aryan - I'm deleting that. As to the battle, give me the proper Zoroastrian names and whether we're talking about the Pre-Zarathushtra Iranian religion, Zoroastrianism proper (as in the Aban Yasht, etc.), or the Shahnameh. I'm going from my head right now, but I believe we're talking about the Thraetona vs. Azhi Dahaka story here, and Indra might better be compared to Tishtrya in this context. Otherwise it should be deleted altogether or re-written. Oh yeah, I added the Devanagari while I was here ;-) Khiradtalk 22:20, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove Thor and Perun from the introduction

The references to Thor and Perun do not belong to the first few lines of the introduction to the article. They should be moved to a new section named "Possible European counterparts"

[edit] Zeus?

I removed

He is a rough equivalent to Zeus in Greek Mythology, or Jupiter in Roman

Zeus is the leader of the gods whereas Indra is just one of many, so I don't think there is much equivalency here. AxelBoldt 19:27, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

In earlier times, Indra was regarded as chief of the Gods, and he is exalted above the others many times in the Rg-Veda.

For example, see [1] --Grammatical error 19:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

There are enough similarities to note.

Zues - Mortal, born from parents. We know the Titans are mortal because they die. Zues kill his father Kronos.

Indra - Mortal, we know they die, like when Indra died, or killed him self because he commeted brahmanside. He reincarnated but he still died.

Zues - Thunderbolt Indra - Thunderbolt

Zues - Rules three systems or worlds Indra - Rules three systems or worlds

Zues - KIlls a creature Typhoon who is known as a dragon Indra - Kills Vritra who is also known as a dragon, a red dragon to be exact.

Zues - Does not end up killing Echidna the mother of Thphoon Indra - Does not kill the mother of Vritra

Zues - Gives up his thron and Dionises takes over Indra - Gives up his throne and Nahusha takes over

Zues - Retakes his throne Indra - Retakes his throne

These are all that I can think of off the top of my head.


Also I think it should be stated in the article that Indra is a mortal, he does die, so he is not rightfully a god. Also he lives on a planet and has his own city there called the city of Indra. I can show refernces for this in Srimad Bhaghavatam, and I believe in Mahabharata.

The Bhagavatam is not the greatest authority on Indra - it greatly degrades his status and is almost insulting. Also, he does not give up his throne willingly whereas Zeus does, and the Rig-Veda is not completely clear on whether or not he killed Danu - he certainly struck her with his thunderbolt, making her fall next to Vritra's body. --Grammatical error 15:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Mahabharata book 5 section X - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05010.htm

"Now when the mighty Vritra, terrible to the gods, was killed, Indra became overpowered by falsehood, and he became exceedingly sad; and he was also overpowered by the sin of Brahmanicide

p. 19

on account of having killed the three-headed son of Twashtri. And he betook himself to the confines of the worlds, and became bereft of his senses and consciousness. And overpowered by his own sins, he could not be recognised. And he lay concealed in water, just like a writhing snake. And when the lord of celestials, oppressed with the dread of Brahmanicide, had vanished from sight, the earth looked as if a havoc had passed over it."

I would say according to Mahabharata which is an authoritative work in Hinduism, Indra indeed gave up his throne willingly.

[edit] Sakra

The entry about the rare mention of Indra in Buddhist scriptures is a howler. Indra and Sakra are used interchanagably and in equal measure in the Hindu scriptures and epics. Indra is just a standard way of referring to the same deity in modern texts. Whilst Bramha and Indra have a subordinate position to the Buddha, they are nevertheless extremely important celestial beings.

[edit] "fair" Indra

I wish people would at least consult the actual text before arguing stuff like that, is this too much to ask? If you want to argue a "fair-skinned Indra" from the Rigveda, the best you'll get is a reference to a "yellow beard" (which is yellow for all his Soma drinking at that). The Rigveda does say that "Indra hates black skin", which would suggest he is himself not "black", but he is nowhere described as "fair-skinned" in positive terms (it is true that krsna tvac is primarily a metaphor for "evil", but it would be a singularly ineptly chosen metaphor if you would suggest that it is at the same time in its literal sense a description of Indra's physique). The cited passages are bogus, an artifact of Griffith's fair. dab (𒁳) 13:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Taishakuten

"Taishakuten"（帝釈天） is specifically a Japanese name for Indra as part of the Buddhist pantheon; Chinese and Korean Buddhists either do not use the same name or else pronounce it very differently. I think it is inaccurate to present the Japanese name, "Taishakuten," as if it were a general "East Asian Buddhist" name for Indra.


I added the pronunciation "Taishakuten" because I felt *something* was better for non Japanese/Korean/Chinese speakers than raw Hanzi/Hanja/Kanji. If I knew the Mandarin and Korean equivalent names I would add them, but I don't. If you do, however, be my guest to add them (it can't hurt).

Besides, it's not presenting Taishakuten as a 'general "East Asian Buddhist" name' for Indra, it's very specifically labeled as Japanese.128.205.116.51 (talk) 14:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletions

As explained here the following was deleted in the article by Hornplease (talk · contribs) but no reason was put on the talkpage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Indra&diff=prev&oldid=126353688 *Indra and Shiva - By Koenraad Elst

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Indra&diff=prev&oldid=126353590