From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Indoor rower article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	This article is part of WikiProject Rowing, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rowing on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

Contents 1 question 2 Concept 2 3 I don't read it that way. 4 Rewriting 5 Rewriting II 6 reads like an ad for concept2 7 History of the ergo 8 Proposed merge of Indoor rower and Rowing exercise 9 Commercialisation. 10 Exercise 11 =Erg Test

[edit] question

hi all, a question i have asked myself, having picked up rowing recently. in track, the most coveted distance is 100m. it s a quick run, exciting, entirely explosive and anaerobic. it can easily be argued that in erging, the 2k is the biggest focus, the first time people compare, etc. why? it s much much longer than 100m, there is some pacing to do, you can t row that distance that many places. any idea why?

This is page to discussion the article not the general topic, but in brief 2k is more like 400m, a sprint but a long one it's considers a good test of fitness. Also there are plenty of rivers where you race over longer distances (see the rowing article) --Nate1481 15:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)not

The question was meant so that this information could be added to the article.

Now that's a bit of a value judgement... the 100m track event is the most spectator friendly and exciting, not necessarily the most prestigious (one could easily argue that honour should go to the Marathon). In rowing, the standard distance has always been either 3 miles (for races modeled on The Boat Race), or 2000m (for races modelled on the Henley Royal Regatta - nowadays much more common). These distances are essentially arbitrary, but the reasons for the distances being so much longer are mainly due to rowing being a much more technical sport than sprinting. It is a test of skill and endurance as well as raw power. But to answer your question in a more definite way, 2k is the most commonly compared distance because that is the distance most international competitions are held over. Simple as that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeti Hunter (talk • contribs) 07:46, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concept 2

This article appears to be an adverts for Concept2!

Not only that, it doesn't include entire classes of rowing machines (hydraulic, for example)

[edit] I don't read it that way.

This article looks pretty good. Concept2 while probably the largest manufacturer of indoor rowers is the only one I have ever seen marketed as an ergometer.

You've probably not looked a lot. Check out Fluid Rower and Water Rower —Preceding unsigned comment added by The 1f coach (talk • contribs) 02:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rewriting

I agree, the entry is certainly overly-commerical. I've been rewriting the the indoor rower entry, and so far have decommericalized the Competitions, Exercise, and External Links sections, giving them both academic legitimacy, and removing the commerical, as well as badly written, content. (James Igoe, 2006-09-24)

[edit] Rewriting II

Removed overly-specific referecnes to the Concept II rower. I believe this entry is now non-commerical, and should be reconsidered (James Igoe, 2006-09-24).

[edit] reads like an ad for concept2

Too much Concept2 in the text, two Concept2 links in the External links section, and the photo is a Concept2 pic. Highfructosecornsyrup 22:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Concept2 are the most widely used ergs so will be a significant part, the other types are listed in the top paragraph, external links to rowperfect and water rower would be good additions though. A paragraph on comparing the types would also be good, will see if i can find the links. --Nate1481 00:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Links added for balance and moved competition section to bottom better? --Nate1481 00:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of the ergo

Does anyone know the history of how indoor rowers gradually entered the rowing scene? They had "rowing machines" on the titanic, but you don't hear of them being used for training until about 1965. Repco introduced one of the first things we would recognaise as an erg in about 1970, and then the concept 2 came in 1981 (I believe). I could write a passable history section but I'm not sure where to go to cite any of it (except the repco bit - i've got a good source for that). Any help?--ABVS 12:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

There's no info about Repco's early ergometer in the Repco article. Can anyone provide more info about the first air-resistance ergometer? -- LightSpeed (talk) 17:49, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's a reputable source that Repco had the first early air resistance ergos: http://www.worldrowing.com/index.php?pageid=44. I thought they came out a little earlier than the 80s though. Oh well.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 07:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merge of Indoor rower and Rowing exercise

An indoor rower is used to simulate the activity of watercraft rowing. Rowing exercise refers to the seated row exercise in weights training. These are two very different workouts that use completely different apparatus.--Yeti Hunter 07:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Upon more detailed reading, the Rowing exercise page does indeed have a lot of duplicated information about indoor rowers. I'd propose that the information from that page relating to ergos be moved to Indoor rower (eg, the world records), and the information about seated row retained on that page, but made less ambiguous. This could be done by renaming the page "Seated row".--Yeti Hunter 07:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

To avoid future confusion I've moved Rowing exercise to Row (weight-lifting) (and added Seated row and Standing row as redirects to there). Ewlyahoocom 20:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I just re-redirected Standing row to Upright row. Ewlyahoocom 03:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commercialisation.

There have been many claims of this article reading like an advert, first for Template:Concept, then for Template:RowPerfect and links to other commercial websites. Typically, the article is cleaned up, then slowly returns to it's former, advert ridden self, before it is cleaned up again.

In the interests of preventing this, and promoting a good quality encyclopedic article, I propose a complete ban on the mention of any specific products, or companies, or commercial entities in this article. This will keep the focus on facts, people and times, and hopefully help us keep an NPOV. Stestagg (talk) 23:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. While blatant advertising should be avoided, you simply cannot have an article about indoor rowing without mentioning Concept 2. They were the first "Indoor rower" as we know them, and they are still the best and most widely used. They are the world standard. I also support mentioning Waterower and Rowperfect as examples of different products, and Repco as the innovators of the first air-resistance ergometers, but probably no other brands (since no other brands have anywhere near the market penetration, nor sufficient difference). So keep the adverts out, but you must mention the prominent brands. Yeti Hunter (talk) 03:53, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that blatant advertising is to be avoided, however, citing C2 in the competition section is not blatant advertising. It is encyclopedic to credit C2 with developing erg racing into a sport in its own right, and to my knowledge the only erg competitions that are being done are still on C2 machines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.209.22 (talk) 05:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I think 81.159.209.22 hits it on the head. Morcheeba (talk) 18:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Exercise

This sounds like idle speculation: "rowing's most common injury site is likely the lower back" I suggest that either remove the word "likely" and provide a citation, or remove the passage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.110.171 (talk) 20:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Blatant weasel wording. Rowing should not cause any injury, properly done. Yeti Hunter (talk) 03:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Without fail, there are practitioners of any sport say the following "_______is one of the most challenging forms of exercise". Erging, like any sport, is as hard as you train. Not encyclopedic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.110.171 (talk) 12:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

However it is still likely that a reliable source can be found for this claim. It is regularly claimed that some sports stand above others in the effort needed to excel, eg distance running, swimming, cycling, and rowing. I recall an article in my local newspaper that claimed exactly that about rowing just recently (it was about how, if he were a footballer, James Tomkins should be a multimillionaire). Still, as it stands, it does appear unencyclopaedic ("My sport is harder than your sport")Yeti Hunter (talk) 22:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] =Erg Test

I have removed the 500m from the list of common erg tests. While it is common for rowers to do 500m tests "for fun" or done in series as part of interval training, they are not a good indicator of aerobic performance because they are too short and I am not aware of coaches taking them seriously. The 2k test on the other hand is the standard competition distance, and the 5k and 6k are reflective of "the boat race".

I think something needs to be said about use of step-testing on the erg to determine anaerobic threshold and max heart rate, but I do not have time to write it (at least not today). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.209.22 (talk) 05:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)