Talk:Indo-Iranians

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[edit] indian/zoroastrians

Dbachmann: Veda monotheism can be argued from the famous sentence "Truth is One, though the sages know it variously". Hinduism derives all its current monotheism from that sentence. From a western point of view, the veda (and hinduism) proliferation in the number of gods can make us think to politheism, while in the indian culture a god is something less than the supreme being (brahman). You can't contest Abram collocation in 2100 bce because this is the more ancient of the many possible accredited ones. On the other side, it is true that you can collocate veda in 1500 bce and avesta in 1200 bce (in their oral tradition), but they both were deriving from elder traditions, that can be collocated even further earlier (3102 bce for ancient indian doctrines, and i don't know but for sure long before of zarathustra for the persian one). Now, in my sentence I had said "MAY", not "HAVE", and then it, just as a possibility, should be maintained. Also this is not fruit of my brain but it is normal doctrine in zoroastrian churches. They also say that judaism was created by moses, reading the past history of abram's family from a religious point of view, as abram himself had not done, or that abram learnt monotheism in current iraq, where he was born, but didn't understand it well, and then exported it to judaism. This last part i must agree with you seems pure fantasy, but the first part can still be possible. Thank you!

[edit] Also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism#Historical_importance

- formative links to both Western Abrahamic and Eastern Dharmic religious traditions

- Zoroastrianism had a large influence on Judaism, Manichaeism, and Christianity because of Persia's connections to the Roman Empire and because of its earlier control over Israel under rulers such as Cyrus II the Great, Darius the Great and Xerxes I. Mithraism also developed from Zoroastrianism.

- By the 6th century, Zoroastrianism had spread to northern China via the Silk Road, gaining official status in a number of Chinese states (then confucianism could be understood as a development of chinese zoroastrianism)

- Should it be before 1300 BCE (prior to Akhenaten) then Zoroaster would be the earliest monotheist known in any religion ... note that they are going far more than what i said... they are forgetting abram... but still zoroaster is not as old as the monotheistic tradition that he already found at his birth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster

- Indo-Iranian religion is generally accepted to have its roots in the 3rd millennium, but Zoroaster himself did already look back on a long religious tradition

http://avesta.org/zfaq.html

- These are not works of instruction, but inspired, passionate utterances, many of them addressed directly to God; and their poetic form is a very ancient one, which has been traced back (through Norse parallels) to Indo-European times.

Then, as a matter of "MAY" (supposition" exposure of a possibility of a doctrine that is not of my invention and creation but is already present both on wikipedia and on the website of avesta, it should be kept.

Tell me your answers, and if i am wrong i will be pleased to learn some more from you! By. Luca


[edit] rationale

vandalism by Crculver - Hmm. this user removed a sourced section, and blanked a paragraph, then edited one to reflect his WP:OR.`Bakaman Bakatalk 23:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I apologise for that one, in the easydiff view I missed the second paragraph. I have no major objections to the version you have reinstated, although one must mention that only Elst and his school support the theory today. If there is no record of peer-reviewed scholarship by multiple scholars, it is a fringe theory and WP rules of proportionality require that it be labelled such. CRCulver 23:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Typical Western Speculation

There has simply never been any solid, or even fair, evidence that the Iranian people were, more or less, indigenous to their homelands. It seems to be a typical move by western historians to accredit ancient civilizations with Europe. The truth is that Andronovo shares almost no similarity to the earliest Iranian cultures, and BMAC shares little and vague commonalities. As the administrator of "Racial Reality" blogged, "There is about as much evidence that supports the Plains Indians as the Proto-Indo-Iranians, as there is to support the BMAC or Andronovo civilizations". Furthermore, there are plenty of cultures on the Iranian plateau, probably some that haven't even been unearthed, that date back far before the Andronovo, Steepe, BMAC or YAZ, and given the gradual South-North warming of the earth at the end of the ice age (and high population density), it's more likely that these cultures had a northwardly influence. In other words, it is certainly more plausible to the objective mind, that the earlier cultures of the Iranian plateau had an influence on central asian cultures.

LGM maps show that Iran was habitable, albeit cold, throughout the ice age. In cave remains, there is a continuity in skeletal remains, clearly suggesting that the proto-Iranian was evolving during the ice age. This later became the ancestor to the white man. Genetic evidence, supports this scenario. The area about the Iranian plateau gives birth to more (if not all) Caucasoid specific haplogroups (J, R, perhaps, I) than, anywhere else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zadeh79 (talk • contribs) 16:38, 23 March 2008 (UTC)