Talk:India Pale Ale

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The high hops in IPA were not really for wild yeasts, they are mostly controlled by competition from the desired yeast while it is still fermenting. Hops mainly control bacteria.

I believe that IPA was specially brewed for India, the British had been going to Australia and the US for a long time before IPA came about and would have had the same problems.


Good edits. I believe that IPA was primarily shipped to India rather than places like Australia because, in India, the British maintained a significant army. I initially thought that the hops inhibited bacteria infection, however, I have at least one reference which states that the hops are to control contamination by wild yeasts. Do you have any actual references that might reliably claim that the main purpose of the heavy hopping is to prevent bacterial infection? (BTW, please sign your posts -- use four tilde characters) Stewart Adcock 19:46, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
IPA uses tame yeast. However, if one wanted to use wild yeast (to make, for example, a lambic), any means of collecting wild yeast would also collect bacterial spores. This would necessitate some manner of separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak: generally, lambics have an extremely high hop content to keep down bacteria while allowing yeast to grow. Perhaps you have confused these two topics?--HTHPolyparadigm 05:28, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't have actual references at hand, that was just what I learned at brewing classes at the U of San Francisco. I'll search around some. --Bob Palin 22:37, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
A quick look turns up this article at Purdue U that names the type of bacteria controlled and the compounds which cause this effect: [1] It doesn't really make sense that hops would prevent wild yeasts since then you would think that they would also affect the desirable yeasts (speculation). In Belgium where they expose the beer to wild yeasts they still use hops though not at IPA level of course. --Bob Palin 22:54, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In that case it seems fair to think that the high level of hops, indeed, hinder bacterial rather than yeast infections. To be honest, this is what I originally thought but I was convinced otherwise after reading a couple of (probably incorrect) books/brouches about brewing. Stewart Adcock 18:44, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Temp Page written to replace earlier article

[edit] No ales in India

The article states "All Indian beers are either lagers or strong lagers". While I can't come up with a counterexample, this seems like an unreasonable claim. Surely a country with 1 billion people has at least one small ale being brewed? -- Kaszeta 14:32, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

No - unfortunately India does not currently have even one small ale being brewed. -- Rameses 00:49, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

That still sounds like a hell of a sweeping statement... SJO (talk) 11:22, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I have no knowledge of ales being brewed in India. There may be a brewer somewhere in India making an ale, but so far it is unknown to the beer world. To take away the sting from the statement I am removing the "all". SilkTork 09:19, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed with silktork - recent beer travellers to india have reported back they could find no ale. Xproudfoot 19:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Asia's first beer?

The article currently states: "In the late 1820s Edward Dyer moved from England to set up the first brewery in India at Kasauli in the Himalaya mountains, producing Asia's first beer Lion." but didn't beer originally come from mesopotamia, and therefore asia? Dyer may have had the first official brewery in asia, but to say that it was asia's first beer seems highly incorrect. let me know if i am just misinformed. --Someones life 22:40, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

You are correct that the ancient mesopotamians were producing beer certainly as early as 6,000 years ago and possibly much earlier. However, the advent of Islam stopped the production of beer and wine throughout the region from around 1,000 AD. Following this period there is no record of Asian beer production until the early 1800's when Edward Dyer set up his brewery at Kasauli. I have changed the text to say that Lion was Asia's first beer brand. I hope this more accurate description is satisfactory. -- Rameses 00:47, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Lion is a brewer that made Beer, not IPA, If they made a Pale Ale that makes it 'Indian' Pale Ale, not India Pale Ale. I move for the whole section about the Lion Brewery to be stricken from this article, due to it being completely irrelevant. - 209.248.175.82 13:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalization

Is the current capitalization correct? India Pale ale? --Daniel11 04:39, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

No it should be "India Pale Ale". Would someone please let me know how to change it? -- Rameses 00:52, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. I'll move the page. request the move. -- Karnesky 07:11, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Is it actually a proper noun? It looks as though it ought to be India pale ale to me. SJO (talk) 10:11, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Done. It's most usually capitalised. Rd232 talk 15:20, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Beer & Independence

Interesting stuff ! But a glaring date typo - India got independence in 1947 not 1949 ! Yes there is great scope for more varieties of beer in India (a large market) including IPA (the heat and long transportation are probably still a factor) -- [ (QADean -


Sorry, it isn't a date typo but a punctuation error. I have changed it from "Following independence in 1949, N.N. Mohan took over management of the company" to read "Following independence, in 1949 N.N. Mohan took over management of the company". I hope that it is now clear that some time after independence (which you correctly state was in 1947) N.N. Mohan took over management of the company. -- Rameses 00:57, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Subsections?

It seems thisa article cold use some cleaning and focus, maybe what it needs is to be divided up into sections. History and Styles. Styles could be British (Imperial and Domestic), Indian, American (Standard and Double). The heading is misleading, it talks about historic IPA and not about the majority of what is being consumed as IPA the differences between the american style (60+ IBU's 6-10% ABV) and the british style (30-45 IBUs 6-7% ABV) should be up at the top in the description of the beer. I apologize for being so american centric, but this beer style would be a footnote if it wasn't for the microbreweries in the US. -- next362 22:55, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] sidebar

Just needs some data then it can be added to the top of the main page.

India Pale Ale
Country of Origin England
Original Gravity ****-****
Final Gravity ****-****
Bitterness IBU 35-50
Colour (SRM) **-**
Attenuation **-**
Yeast type Ale
Malt percentage **-**
Alcohol by volume 5.5-7%
Serving Temperature 45-50°F
BJCP style # 14A
This article forms part of a series on beers and breweries of the world.

-- next362 12:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

The IBUs need to go a lot higher for IPA! Especially if this article is going to be merged with double IPA, but even if it isn't. Troegs nugget nectar for example has IBUs way above 50 as do many comparable IPAs on the market. Where did this data come from? Xproudfoot 19:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Strong Pale Ale

I removed the redirect and removed the reference to Strong Pale Ale as this would be better discussed in a section of its own.


This is a very good article. I like the comments detailing the difference between American IPA and the British IPA. Martyn Cornell has done some fine research on the origins of IPA which I will incorporate into the article in due course.

SilkTork 09:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of IPAs

i'd appreciate a list of commercially available IPAs. Streamless 19:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] First Paragraph in "Today" Section

I'm taking it out. It really just doesn't make sense to have a paragraph re: brewing IPA in India first as it's a British style. Personally, I found it a bit confusing. Why should it be mentioned that no IPA is brewed in India now when there never really was? It's better just mentioning how the style is dying in its native land and get on to the Americans who're now carrying the IPA torch. Still, I can't say it's not worthwhile info--just poorly placed. If someone wants to find a better place for it, here it is:

Today, no brewer in India makes India Pale Ale. Indian beers are either lagers or strong lagers (8 % alcohol - such as the popular MAX super strong beer). International Breweries Pvt. Ltd. have recently announced an intention to work with Mohan Meakin to produce and launch an India Pale Ale called Indian IPA from India's first brewery at Kasauli. International Breweries have stated their intention to reverse the historic flow of beer by sending it from the Himalaya mountains in India to Britain by ship.

Frank 21:50, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Merging Double India Pale Ale with the IPA article

Merging DIPA into IPA sounds like a good idea. I would suggest that it be done under a new heading titled: "Varieties of India Pale Ale". Information on other varieties of IPA, such as Imperial Pale Ale, should be moved under this new heading.

--Rameses 17:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It would make sense to merge "double IPA" here. What makes something a "double" IPA is a matter of degree and marketing, not a strict categorical difference - no one regulates these labels - it's usually just stronger IPA, often (hopefully) with even more care to produce a complex, fine flavor. Xproudfoot 19:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I merged the article; working on redirect fixes. --Crazysunshine 06:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, all redirects are fixed. The actual merging of content into article might not have been perfect, though; apologies if there's any duplicate information or anything of that sort. --Crazysunshine 23:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Imperial/India/etc.

India Pale Ale is NOT the same as Imperial Pale Ale, though the two styles share many traits. Imperial Pale Ale refers to ales for export to the Tsar, while India Pale Ale refers stricly to the style of ale brewed for the troops in India. Jamesg 11:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Thats because the english were exporting "stong"(which would become to be known as "Imperial") stouts, not pale ales, and please start a entry for your issue. - 69.47.132.138 04:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Please provide a context for "imperial" pale ale. What time frame are you talking about? In current use, it's just another phrase meaning the same thing double IPA does. It's a marketing angle, and usually reflects higher alcohol content. I have no idea whether historically it may have meant something else, but it doesn't today in the beer markets I take part in (which is by the way, of course global...)Xproudfoot 19:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Xproudfoot is correct, there was never an Imperial IPA, it is a misnomer invented on the popularity of Imperial Stout, Stouts were made in england for the russian court, there were extra strong Stouts made for export. Due to the popularity with the Russian Imperial Court, they developed the name/style of Imperial Stout. IPA's were never specify exported to a Royal/Imperial Court. I do not know the specifics on how the title got popular, but it is very popular as an American term for American Double IPA's. Double IPA refers to the power of both the Hop flavor and the alcohol content. Double/Imperial IPA should be a sub-article under this article, but it should also specify the misnomer behind 'Imperial' and if someone could research to find out how this title came to be it would make a great addition to the page. I personally have been scolding mid-west American brewers who use the 'Imperial' title for their Double IPA's. - 209.248.175.82 13:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, it's a bit too entrenched now to do anything about it-- in addition to Imperial IPAs, we also have Imperial Pilseners and Imperial Brown Ales. I also suppose there's a compelling argument that a brewery can call their beer whatever the hell they want to, including the much-reviled "Triple IPA" (which really is just a barleywine.) I think that imperial pale ale (which, as far as I can tell is largely historical) and imperial IPA refer to two different things. Imperial Pale Ale, historically, was the hopped-up pale ale brewed for the Russian Empire and now means the same thing as India Pale Ale. Imperial IPA is a term made up by American brewers (but then again, so is Double IPA) to refer to the hop monsters they were churning out. --Kajerm 15:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

IPA and Imperial "Double" IPA may have a similay name but they are much different in my opinion I recommend not merging the articles--Ted-m 00:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested change in redirect for IPA from International Phonetic Alphabet to IPA (disambiguation)

Please comment. --Karnesky 15:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First Double IPA

I understand that there's very little written history on certain styles, especially modern ones. But which is correct for the origin of the Double IPA? There's a link to a Union Tribune article and a Beer Advocate review. Some clarification there is in order. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.105.123.77 (talk) 01:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] NPOV

I shortened the last sentence in the article, removing the clearly POV portion "...such are the economics of modern brewing". The word "inadequate" in what remains of the sentence also makes me a little wary, but I'll leave it for now, don't want to step too much on other people's work. Also, the term "laying down" in that sentence should be defined or linked, but I don't know how best to do it - maybe someone else should? Zarvok | Talk 02:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, it's unencyclopedic and POV as all hell. I'm not sure how it wormed its way back into the article, but I've excised it again. This article seems to have a few deeper POV issues; it spends an awful lot of time musing about beer style distinctions (occasionally resorting to weasel words) that I care about but which really might just serve to confuse the average reader. -- Kajerm 15:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that whole DIPA section is questionable in this regard. Somebody doesn't like Double IPAs... And what's with the scare quote forest? This is a serious problem. Dunkelweizen 16:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] undefined abbreviations in the text

IBU is not defined and is linked only late in the article to the article on International Bitterness Units

APV is not defined and it is not clear what it means

ABV is not defined or linked to its definition but means Alcohol By Volume

[edit] Alexander Keith's Is Not A Lager

In the article:

In Canada, Alexander Keith's India Pale Ale has become popular as the microbrewery movement has taken off since the 1990s. However, unlike its modern American cousins, it is not a true IPA but rather one which has been toned down for modern tastes and is by all accounts a basic lager.

While Alexander Keith's may not be a good example of an IPA, it still uses top-fermenting ale yeasts and is therefore, by definition, an Ale -- not a Lager. Am I wrong?

DrSkrud 18:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that any of this belongs in the article at all. Does every IPA need a little writeup? Dunkelweizen 16:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

IPA has unfortunately become a marketing term as well. This is a good guide on what would qualify something as a particular style of beer BJCP Guidelines. See page 16, section 14. DougieFresh 03:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)