Talk:India/Archive 40

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

other topics needing mention

contributor of so called 'arabic numerals'
contribution of 'zero' to the number system
ISRO and its achievements —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sajithps (talk • contribs) 21:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


Topography map of India has multiple mistakes.

- River Yamuna is misspelled as Yamunda - River Mahanadi is misspelled as Manahadi - River Godavari is misspelled as Godavara - River Krishna (south of Godavari) is wrongly named as Tapati - River Kaaveri is misspelled as Kasveri - River Bramhaputra is misspelled as Bahramputra

These are just a few I could find in 2 minutes. Pleas replace this map with a better one, or remove it until we can find a better one.

Thanks Balu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.145.54.15 (talk) 19:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Military section image

Military image has been updated with the AAD missile image.--Chanakyathegreat (talk) 06:36, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I like the image, but it is low resolution and it is doubtful that the uploader User:Roghov is the copyright-holder for this and other images he has uploaded - therefore it might not fall under GFDL. Hope we can find a better image than the current Agni-II image though ... Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 09:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I lime the site very much —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.54.176.51 (talk) 11:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I dont like the image cuz you cant really see the acutal missile and also cuz its in the dark and rather unclear. I am for the agni missile. Nikkul (talk) 21:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

O.K. The missile image is there for a long time and it's that of a Agni-II. Since India has tested the Agni-III, I wish to see one there. Now I am replacing it with another beautiful image of the INS Tarangini taken by Cruadin. Chanakyathegreat (talk) 11:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Lets discuss the images and see them here before implementing them on the page. Nikkul (talk) 11:30, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure nuclear missiles are cool for representing "military", but I am not so sure they are appropriate as epitomizing "foreign relations". It is strange to combine the two topics in a single section anyway. E.g. the Germany article treats these topics as two separate h3 sections. dab (𒁳) 16:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Nikkul, how many years it will take to make the change after discussion in this article. Anyway please start the discussion now and decide as fast as possible.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 10:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I also think that foreign relations should be its own section. To tell you the truth, I like the tank image here. Nikkul (talk) 19:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I will prefer something Made in India rather than showcase an imported one. There is no good quality images of the Arjun MBT in Wikipedia. Anyway there are many images of Indigenous weapons systems. Try to find a favorite among those images.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 12:26, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

This vehicle is actually made in India. It is the most advanced tank in the army. Whats wrong with this image? It doesnt show anyone getting blown up or anything. Nikkul (talk) 12:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

No, Regarding T-90, its technology transfer and producing it here. I will prefer a good image of Arjun MBT over the T-90. But I think the most appropriate image for this section is the image of INS Tarangini which supports foreign relation and military. Chanakyathegreat (talk) 05:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I too think the INS Tarangini image is a good choice for the section as it relates to both the (incongruous) subjects of 'Military' and 'Foreign Relations'. Comments ? Abecedare (talk) 21:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
The ship image would be misrepresenting the military since this ship is not used for military reasons. I feel that we should keep the agni image since it shows India's military development. Nikkul (talk) 01:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

O.K, Since you are against it's addition I have choosen another image. It's that of the PAD missile. This missile is the latest technology that was tested successfully. Only limited nations have succeeded in acquiring this BMD capability (only 3 nations). So I hope that you will not have any objection to it. Also this is the latest in the series of technological advancement India has made in the defense field. Chanakyathegreat (talk) 10:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The pic is hard to see. I have to tilt my head to get a good view. I will try finding other images. I think the T90 image is perfect for the section Nikkul (talk) 22:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I cannot make it stand vertical. And why are you tilting your head and looking at it. Just look at it as it is. Anyway if you still have objection here is another image of AAD missile in a vertical position.[1] Is this O.K or need another change. Regarding T-90, I will prefer the image of Arjun MBT over it. If you can find a good image of Arjun MBT, that will be better.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 04:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It's O.K to have the Su-30MKI image at the moment. But I will add a beautiful image of the Tejas when I get it.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 03:54, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Spoken version

It is quite old. Can someone with clear English pronunciation read the article and create a new spoken version?198.62.10.11 (talk) 11:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


It has now also deviated from the article. But otherwise the rendition is barely OK. I would have volunteered myself had I been confident about my own diction. nirax (talk) 18:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll do it, if someone provides me instructions Nikkul (talk) 12:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Follow the instructions stated below:-
  1. Record
    (optionally, see reading guidelines (under construction) for help on how to read an article when recording)
  2. Upload
  3. Add to article
  4. Add to Spoken articles list

KnowledgeHegemony 15:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Indian accent or American accent? Nikkul (talk) 01:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Indian off course. Isn't this obvious? Desione (talk) 09:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Sukhoi image

This image is of better resolution.
This image is of better resolution.

THe image is on Sukhoi Su-30MKI and NOT Sukhoi Su-30. PLease make the correction. --74.140.120.11 (talk) 18:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Pic for Geography section

We can add in Geography section one more picture of most important river of India i.e Ganaga/Ganges representing its strong relations with culture of millions of people in India. We can add Kumbh mela picture organized around this river which also represents largest religious/non-religious gathering anywhere on the face of humanity. Such a picture will speak 1000 words at once, which ofcourse we need in this article that represents huge nation like India. This will also show strong relation between geography and culture of masses of this nation.

Waiting for what others think! Thank You - Holy Ganga talk 14:24, 22 February 2008 (UTC)


I have added and I support adding a pic of the ganges..its the most important river in India. And also the most important geographical element in the country Nikkul (talk) 01:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

India the only country that has bright in couleurs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.78.66.6 (talk) 09:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

picture of people praying in varanasi

should I propose here to add this picture to the "culture" chapter? Is it Ok? what do you think? HornK (talk) 19:36, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Vedic period in history of India

The Vedic period is the Aryan period of India which isn't mentioned in the history but it's an important part of the history of India and should be noticed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.10.173.29 (talk) 21:44, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Ayurveda under sports section

Why is Ayurveda mentioned under the sports section? I believe it should be moved to a more appropriate section. Rajamouly (talk) 09:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

What happened to Languages, Religions sections?

Lot of sections deleted since I visited the last time!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.18.104.1 (talk) 08:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The India page seems to be very volatile just like Indian share market. Sections have been cut down, merged separated, deleted ....what not. Everyday there is a new image replacing an existing one. One day I visited the flora & fauna section it had a tiger image, next time, I noticed a giant Indian squirrel and today its a peacock. This page is far from what wikipedia calls stable. --gppande «talk» 08:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

See WP:SUMMARY. --Ragib (talk) 09:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Article size explosion

The article has become too large to qualify under WP:SUMMARY style and also WP:FACr. Since the last time I looked at it, it has grown at least 30%. If this trend continues (i.e. addition of material here rather than topic specific pages), soon we will have to nominate it for WP:FAR. Right now, it fails several FA criteria badly. --Ragib (talk) 09:10, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that the WP:OWNers of the article don't want anyone to touch it, contrary to Wiki's Be Bold policy. It may mean FAR is the only plausible solution. GizzaDiscuss © 00:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. The same is happening on Mumbai, where I raised the issue in vain on the talk page, as did Nichalp (related to images) on the India portal. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

American English

The Article is mainly written in Indian Standard English, but there is some use of American Standard English. Since the page is about India, it is evident to use Indian Standard English, very similar to British Standard English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.5.152.147 (talk) 17:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Lead

Further information: WP:LEAD

F&f, "Home to the Indus Valley Civilization and a region of historic trade routes and vast empires, the Indian subcontinent..." isn't outright false, but it is positively pathetic just in terms of tone. It shouldn't grace a FA for a day, let alone two years(!?). That's just style ("home to"? "vast"?). In terms of WP:DUE, how is it defensible to name a prehistoric culture in para 2 of the lead to India, but subsume historical items of tremendous notability (Maurya, Gupta, Mughal empires) under a cheesy "vast"? I'm sorry. This isn't the worst bit of prose on Wikipedia, of course, but what is it doing in the lead to a Featured Article? This should be a no-brainer, fix and move on. dab (𒁳) 13:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

 :) I only just noticed this. Let me think about it. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

To add to the list

Among Indian writers of the modern era active in Indian languages or English, Rabindranath Tagore won the Nobel Prize in 1913. (In Culture section)

"modern era active"?? KnowledgeHegemony 14:56, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

It's fine grammatically. Read it again, this time taking the few seconds to stop at 'era' and think that maybe active isn't connected to it as a phrase. 172.143.154.84 (talk) 19:00, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Indian Empire,East India Company, etc...

My edit was reverted last time but I really think its a needed constructive edit. As things stood before it leaned towards a rather simplistic and erroneous view of history that the British 'owned' India for 200 years. That it was a part of the UK but denied the vote and all that. Of course it didn't directly say that but that's the way it read to me. It wasn't the main focus of my edits though
That would be that I really think it needs mentioning that there were at least two different periods in European domination of India- first was all the informal stuff with the EIC dominating at the end and second was the actual British empire. Quite different periods of history and 1858 is a pretty significant year in Indian history which needs mentioning just as much as 1947 does. It was afterall when 'India' was founded. --Him and a dog 11:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

There have been long discussion on this before and the current wording was arrived at after much back and forth. Please read talk archives from Jan-March 2007. I understand you point, but this is an extremely (nay, impossibly) abbreviated history (in a lead). However, the links are provided and a reader can easily read up the details there. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:51, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Agekm (talk · contribs) insisting India is in Africa

Hi. Please revert this user's actions. If I remember correctly, India is in Asia, and has been for the past 5 million years. The last time it was in South Africa was 100 million years ago. I have already reverted this user twice, reverting twice more will result in 3RR, so please revert this edit. It has stated it is in south Asia for a long time. Seriously, if someone moved India to Africa, the global climate will be in big trouble. Please help. Thanks. ~AH1(TCU) 23:04, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

That is simple vandalism. Simply revert the edit and warn the editor. If he/she persists, they will be blocked from editing. Abecedare (talk) 23:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

this site is extremely good and well thought out it has every thing thatb anyone needs i am doing an english talk and this is the best site ever it has a lot of interstinbg facts on it and it has encouraged me to look into more detail for india thank you if you are wanting to talk back to me i go to fortrise academy in Scotland the UK my address is jackzp22@hotmail.co.uk write back soon thankyou once more —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.63.101 (talk) 18:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Even 200 Ma ago, India wasn't part of Africa as such, but of Gondwana, a supercontinent that included Africa, India, South America, Australia and a few other small land masses in modern times. GizzaDiscuss © 23:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Updating GDP(PPP) per capita information

Just like to point out that India's GDP(PPP) per capita information has changed on the List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita page. IMF estimated data published in April 2008, ranks India differently. The information on the India page should be updated to reflect new data. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.161.138.200 (talk) 20:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

British colonial rule

Surely India declared independence from the United Kingdom? Speedboy Salesman (talk) 20:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

No. The about statement is correct if Republic of India is used. India is far greater in all aspects.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 12:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, AFAIK, Republic of India didn't "declare" independence. The independence was granted by the Indian Independence Act 1947 of the British Parliament. --Ragib (talk) 12:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

First of all, India was not a republic at the time of Independence. It became republic on Jan26, 1951. And yes Independence was granted to India, it was not a run-away territory of the British Raj. gppande «talk» 10:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

British colonial rule is fine I guess or is British Raj the correct term? KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 (talk) 13:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
British Raj --gppande «talk» 16:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, what part of the text is this confusion about? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Images (again ... sorry)

Can more editors please watchlist the Template:Indian image rotation, which for the past three months has seen (AFAIK) unilatreral and undiscussed changes by User:Nikkul, many of which I think were inappropriate (list of changes). For example:

  • Image:Ophrysia superciliosa hm.jpg was replaced by Image:MumbaiClimate.jpg, the latter being a silhouette image of two palms, which while artistic, has minuscule encyclopdic value since the reader cannot even see the objects of central interest.
  • The selected picture Image:Panthera_tigris_tigris.jpg was replaced by Image:India_tiger.jpg (click on the images to see why I think this was a bad idea)
  • The high-resolution Image:Sakyamuni_Buddha.jpg image was replaced by the low-resolution, and highly colour saturated, Image:BuddhaTwang.jpg.
  • Besides that, several of the captions added or modified by Nikkul are in my opinion sub-standard, especially for an FA article; example
    • Today's version of the page contains the image Image:Shiva_Statue.png with the caption "Lord Shiva is one of the principal deities of Hinduism", without any mention of what is actually pictured. (The image itself is iffy for the page, but I'll leave that aside for the moment)
    • Today, Nikkul, modified the caption on the Image:SU-30MKI-g4sp.jpg image from "The Sukhoi Su-30MKI is part of the Indian Air Force" to "The Indian Air Force is the world's second largest air force" sourced to [2]. Again the new caption failed to say what was pictured; additionally it was POV and misleading since a reader is not expected to know that by "second largest" one means that IAF has the second largest number of personnel.
    • Nikkul changed the caption on Image:India tiger.jpg from "The Bengal tiger, threatened by poachers and smugglers, faces declining population levels and possible extinction." to "The Royal Bengal tiger is India's national animal." Normally I would assume good faith and disregard this, but its hard not to interpret it as POV pushing given the consistent pattern of behaviour.

So what can we do ? I don't wish to go back to the days when each image change on the India page, required mega-bytes of heated discussion; but I think there should be some minimal attempt to invite input before adding/replacing content (perhaps following the WP:DYK/WP:PINSPC model of inviting comments rather than trying to build wide consensus in each case).
Secondly, I see that several editors have raised concern about Nikkul's adding/removing pictures from India, Mumbai, Kolkata, Bangalore etc: for instance Nichalp, Dwaipayanc, Gppande, thunderboltz, Arejay and now, me. I wonder if we can have a consolidated discussion about this issue (perhaps at WT:INB), instead of dealing with it piecemeal. Note that I am not seeking any sanctions/probation against Nikkul, who I think does some exemplary work in getting images onto wikipedia from flickr; however it would be useful to reach some general consensus on the number and quality of images that is thought appropriate on India and India city pages.
Comments and suggestions are invited!. Abecedare (talk) 21:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is the link to Image Rotation Discussion, where some users did arguably express support for some of the changes Nikkul made. Please note that I am not aiming to start a discussion on the individual decisions here, but rather the process and judgment that we should use in the future. Abecedare (talk) 21:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello there Abecedare, I understand your concerns, and the way you clearly mentioned that you are not aiming to start a discussion on the individual decisions here, but rather the process and judgment that we should use in the future.

But still as a fellow Wikipedian and a friend, who is also associated with WP:IND I would like to request Nikkul to abstain from 'glorifying' (not the apt word I guess) India on Wikipedia, which we as nation loving Indians tend to do, at times unintentionally, influenced by the "India shining" wave sweeping the world media. I have noticed that you have tried removing the 'negative' aspects of India from the lead related to poverty, illiteracy, malnutrition etc. However these are facts, which can't and should'nt be hidden.

Like Abecedare, I too admire your efforts in getting quality pictures from flickr to Wikipedia. Happy editing! Thanks, KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 (talk) 17:06, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I've rv'd all the unilateral and deceitful edits to the India rotation template made by user:Nikkul. He's been doing this for ages, and needs to be dealt with boldly. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, he is making unilateral edits again. I though adding a phrase like 'fellow Wikipedian and a friend' would get him involved in this discussion. But now I guess the only solution is to appoint someone as the 'admin' for this particular page. He/She shall have the authority to decide whether consensus is for or against (on the basis of discussions on the talk page). Something like the WP:PROD or WP:FAC or even WP:FP... Or else this template is going to be a failure. The person should be someone who has not uploaded any of the nominated pictures. KnowledgeHegemonyPart2 (talk) 04:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Since when was the toda hut part of the image rotation? I have tried to make some images better, but if there is a problem i understand and I have not insisted all my edits be reverted. Fowler has added his own images under the cover of replacing mine

And by the way, next time you have a discussion, it might be a nice idea to alert me by leaving me a message rather than waiting for me to somehow find all the pages things are discussed.

  • Why would you accuse me of adding a Shiva image when clearly there was consensus to have it below?
  • There were 2 images of Buddha- both were present when people voted for the inclusion of that shrine in the rotation.
  • No one has ever discussed the flaura and fauna images and artistic impressions of a species that might not have even existed are being used. And no images of flaura were present. As there was no discussion of these images, I was bold and tried to make this better.
  • When a fresh vote was taken, 9 people were against the Toda hut, 1 person was for. How can fowler make his own unilateral edits and add it when there is clear consensus to eliminate it from the rotation?
  • How are my edits unilateral when there is CLEAR evidence that everything I added adhered to the consensus below?

Please keep in mind that I am trying my hardest to improve the page. I am not trying to make it harder for everyone. So if there is a problem, do leave me a message. I feel that my edits were beneficial and in total agreement with the consensus that had been established for the culture rotation. Nikkul (talk) 18:46, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

CULTURE ROTATION VOTE COUNT CLICK TO SEE

  • AKSHARDHAM TEMPLE - 6 for, 2 against
  • BUDDHA (two images)- 9 for, 1 against
  • TODA HUT- 1 for, 9 against
  • TAGORE- 4 for, 2 against
  • CUISINE OF NORTH INDIA- 3 for, 4 against
  • MYSORE PALACE two images- 5 for, 4 against
  • PRAYER FLAG- 5 for, 0 against
  • SHAKANTULA- 5 for, 2 against
  • THRISSUR POORAM- 5 for, 5 against
  • BULL TEMPLE- image deleted
  • KONARK- 3 for, 3 against
  • LOTUS TEMPLE- 5 for, 2 against
  • MAHABHODHI TEMPLE- 4 for, 3 against
  • SHIVA two images- 6 for, 3 against
Apparently, user:Nikkul never tires of prevaricating. What was this vote? Would he like to personally query all the 18 people who voted to keep the Toda image, in contrast to the 17 who didn't, whether they had all suddenly changed their minds? Enough with the lies. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

WHAT LIES? The most recent vote proved that you were the only one for the Toda Hut. Stop making your own unilateral edits, Fowler. 9 people against 1 (you) means the Toda Hut shouldnt be part of the rotation. Nikkul (talk) 00:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

By the time the "most recent vote" was held, most people had tired of your antics. Indeed, I myself, didn't vote "for" the Toda image, only said that the vote was already over. So, perhaps, you can delude yourself that the Toda image was voted out 9 to 0. Of course, convincing others to share in your delusion, is an entirely different matter. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh now you've started making excuses as to why you were the only vote. Wikipedia relies on consensus and we had clear consensus against the Toda hut image. Nikkul (talk) 03:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
As Nikkul's count above clearly shows, the Toda pic was voted out. Not just voted out... it was also argued by many that it was UNDUE. A user:Fowler&fowler deluding himself that he only abstained from the vote is irrelevant to the consensus that the Toda pic has no place in this article. Sarvagnya 17:51, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Can you explain, Mr. Sarvgnya, in your usual unsurpassed gracefulness, how 18-17 is the same as 0-9? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Can YOU, Mr. Fowler, explain why it was 1-9? It was not like anyone was physically banned from voting for the toda image. Why were you the only one to vote? The 17-18 and the 1-9 vote shows that the Toda image should not be included. There was never consensus or significant majority to keep the toda image, while there was consensus to remove it from the rotation. Stop wasting everyones time, Fowler Nikkul (talk) 23:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Military image

Destroyer INS Ranjit (D53).
Destroyer INS Ranjit (D53).

It's time to change the Su-30MKI image with a new one. What about this image. Since the missiles and Air force section is covered, let the selection be from the IN section.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 05:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

This image doesnt show much. I prefer the su image Nikkul (talk) 17:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

The image has been updated with the Arjun MBT image.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 10:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Opinion on using the Arjun MBT Image.[3]

Support
1.

Oppose
1.Nikkul.

Chanakyathegreat (talk) 09:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Christianity in India

"Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam arrived in the first millennium CE". From what I know, Christianity arrived (by St Thomas) 20 years after Jesus' death. --RaviC (talk) 13:43, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Navi Mumbai more populated than thane

population of Navi Mumbai is currently 2mil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.201.41.134 (talk) 10:01, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Article readability

I've been measuring the readability of different articles, and among the FA's the readability of this article is quite awful. The Flesch Reading Ease score is only 32.3 (out of 100, lower value means less readable), and the Flesch-Kincaid Readability Test score is 13.97. What do these numbers mean? The second one means that on average, you'll need 14 years of education to understand this article properly. In other words, this article, as it stands now, is written for people at least 19 years in age, in 2nd or 3rd year of university.

Readability is not an accurate measure, but gives more or less a rough idea of how effective is a given piece of text in expressing the ideas. The metrics I quoted above are well established statistical measures for English language text.

This implies that, the text needs to be improved. We need to cut the long sentences, use less complex words etc. Indian English constructs (of using long sentences with multiple clauses) might also be an issue. --Ragib (talk) 04:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

The article is written in the indian 'Grammar' language, It may confusing to hear the word center, often spelled as centre. However, if the article needs to be improved why don't you do it. Dwilso 05:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Readability stats are not concerned with spelling, rather they use syllables in measuring the scores. I don't think writing "labour" would cause syllable count to change. Besides, the number of such words used in this article are not significant enough to cause such a high readability score. --Ragib (talk) 05:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Ragib, Nice idea to test for readability!
What are the stats. for other country FAs ? Is there a difference between English/non-English speaking articles. I ask because it is possible that unavoidable non-English terminology such as geographic entities, people (Jawaharlal vs John/Bill :) ), dances etc may also play a role in the low readability score.
A related issue: Just glancing at the article I see a sea of "blue". I think it may be possible to drastically reduce wikilinking, for example in the culture section all the state names need not be wikilinked again; Mumbai is linked 4 times; etc. Abecedare (talk) 05:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I tested 36 FAs, the median readability was 12.835, average 13.22. While this article is 0.8 grades higher than the average, it is 1.2 levels above the median score for FAs. --Ragib (talk) 05:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
It certainly needs to be summarised a lot. But again, each time you summarise something, you come across inexperienced editors espousing the inclusionist policies that are unsuitable for an article of such nature. =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the fact that this article is hard to read and not ideal for everyone. I remember there used to be french phrases in this article, which is completely unnecessary. I also think there are too many links. Portugal, france, netherlands uk do not need to be linked. State does not need to be linked! The last sentence of the geography section does not need links. Ahmedabad is spelled wrong, nuclear family doesnt need a link. Nikkul (talk) 09:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Is there an ideal value to which we should strive for? I agree that 14 is far too high, but it would be very difficult to pull it down to say 6/7, so that all secondary school children can understand the article. Because of the wealth of non-English terminology like Bharatanatyam and Kathakali, it won't be easy task to cut down the Syllables/word value. The best option is probably to shorten the very long sentences. An ideal average for words/sentence length is 15-20. GizzaDiscuss © 04:09, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. I don't know if readability is really determined by lengths of sentences. Also, I've never heard that Indian English has on average longer sentences or more complicated sentence structure that other varieties of national English. A quick check in the New York Times, the London Times and the Statesman, in fact, suggests exactly the opposite conclusion:

As the Federal Reserve completes work on rules to root out abuses by lenders, its plan has run into a buzz saw of criticism from bankers, mortgage brokers and other parts of the housing industry. One common industry criticism is that at a time of tight credit, tighter rules could make many mortgages more expensive by creating more paperwork and potentially exposing lenders to more lawsuits. To the chagrin of consumer groups that have complained that the proposed rules are not strong enough, the industry’s criticism has already prompted the Fed to consider narrowing the scope of the plan so it applies to fewer loans. (New York Times, 28 April 2008)

The bitterness surrounding Chelsea’s 2-1 win over Manchester United continued on a day of claim and counterclaim that threatened to sour relations between two of the country’s biggest clubs. Allegations that the postmatch flare-up between groundstaff and the United substitutes was sparked by abuse directed at Patrice Evra, initially encouraged by some at Old Trafford, were strenuously denied by Chelsea. Chelsea reacted strongly to the allegations, particularly as they were not made immediately after the incident at Stamford Bridge on Saturday, leading to talks last night between Peter Kenyon and David Gill, the respective chief executives. (The Times, London, 28 April 2008)

PRESIDENT Ahmadinejad arrives in Delhi on Tuesday. During his brief stopover he will confer with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Recently a statement from official US sources advised New Delhi to persuade Iran to stop its uranium enrichment programme. New Delhi rebuffed the USA. It said India was capable of conducting its foreign policy without foreign advice. The government reiterated its close historic ties with Iran. Earlier, India had voted against Iran for ignoring, as a signatory to Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), its commitments to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). India was justified in doing this. Russia and China did the same. The West’s concerns about nuclear proliferation are valid. (The Statesman, Kolkata, 28 April 2008

Certainly if I compare an author like R. K. Narayan, who self-consciously wrote in Indian English, with someone like Doris Lessing, I can't help making the same (opposite) conclusion. Neither am I sure that other encyclopedias follow such readability guidelines. Certainly Britannica doesn't. Consider the two sentences from its "India" article's lead:

From that period on, India functioned as a virtually self-contained political and cultural arena, which gave rise to a distinctive tradition that was associated primarily with Hinduism, the roots of which can largely be traced to the Indus civilization. Other religions, notably Buddhism and Jainism, originated in India—though their presence there is now quite small—and throughout the centuries residents of the subcontinent developed a rich intellectual life in such fields as mathematics, astronomy, and architecture.

I agree that uniformly long sentences can be tedious to read, that the long should be mixed in with the short, but that applies to other aspects of syntactical structure as well: variation is key to holding a readers interest. But I don't see why a sentence that is, say, 35 words long, should be automatically disqualified. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:13, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

PS I should add that I haven't taken a look at the India page in a long time, so I'm not disagreeing with Ragib that it is not very readable, only that sentence length might not be the best gauge of readability. A very simple solution would be to request a good copy-editor like user:Finetooth to copy edit the article if she is available. I'm happy to request her if there is consensus here. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

With respect to readability, I think the phrase "do the needful" needs to be used somewhere :-) Then please replace please with pls. pls is even starting to get popular in US now. Desione (talk) 10:10, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Please add sections on Indian a)science and technology b)ancient contribution in maths,languages etc

This article has been effectively orgainsed and detailed BUT I don't see ANY section on Indian science or technology. India has made many great contirbution to the world in the field of science ,maths,inventions,philosophy etc Even in this modern ear there are many noteworthy achievements in the fields of sciences,space,nulcear eneergy,IT,communication etc I have also seen the China page in wiki and found that its highlighting its Ancient culture and civilization very well.It also had a good section on Chinese science,inventions and technlogical achievements. So who so ever is maintaining this page can you please take my suggestions and improve/add section on ancient contrubtuions of India to the world,science and technology and other relevant topics in this wonderful article.

John Rambo 20:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


I agree that the science and tech section is needed. Japan has such a section and is a featured article. Nikkul (talk) 06:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


Why not Arabic numerals for a start? --RaviC (talk) 13:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This page has already voted to not have such a section. Please see previous discussion. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a dynamic site that doesn't stay the same. If there is new consensus here, we can def. add it regardless of what happened in the past. Nikkul (talk) 07:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Dear user:Nikkul, why don't you develop the parent article Science and Technology in India, which has been largely unedited since it was hurriedly created at the time of the first straw-poll six months ago and remains one paragraph long? All the other sections in this page have reasonably well developed parent articles (History of India, Geography of India, Economy of India, Fauna of India, Culture of India, ...)
Also, this page is about the Republic of India and "Science and Technology in India," as you can see in the parent article, refers to science and technology in current-day India (not about Arabic numerals etc. beyond a quick perfunctory mention)
As for consensus, you will have to establish new consensus. Given that the parent article is a stub, and that the majority view six months ago was against adding a new section, I wish you the very best of luck in your endeavor. Warm regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
I have added links on History of Indian science and technolgy, Mathematics etc is the List of Indian topics template so that readers can atleast get info on India's contributions to these fields.These topics have been very well written and developed.It would be helpful.

I like to also work on the Science and Technology topic so that we can provide the link in the main article.Most of the countries in wiki do have this section so it make it pertinent and sensible to have such an important topic included in this one too.

John Rambo 20:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Here are the results of the majority view from six-months ago:

Definition: A Large paragraph is approximately 250 to 300 words; a small paragraph is 125 to 150 words. Those are the approximate upper limits.

  1. Full section
  2. (Large/Small (please choose one)) paragraph within (Culture, Economy (please choose one)
  3. No addition/expansion in any form needed at this time.
  • Votes:
    • Most needed 1,Chanakyathegreat 03:41, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
    • (Example) 2, small, culture, signature.
    • 3, not needed at this time. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 07:52, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
    • 2, small, within Economy.--Dwaipayan (talk) 21:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
    • 3,Blanket no new sections from my end. The article is bloated enough. =Nichalp «Talk»= 01:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
    • 3, Blanket no new sections at this time. --Blacksun 13:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
    • 3 - No new sections at this time as the article is very bloated. Green Giant 17:39, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
    • 2- Large. It is rather important to economy Nikkul 02:19, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
    • 3 - Blanket NO NEW SECTIONS. Article is already super-sized. --Ragib 21:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


Dear Fowler&fowler«Talk»,
Why dont you stop telling me what articles to edit. I do have the capability of deciding that myself and do not need your advice on that issue. Nikkul (talk) 17:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I have wonderful pictures of India

I have wonderful pictures of India (really nice) and I dont know how to put upload them or if i have permission to do so....can someoen tell me simply how to put them up and if i have permission to do so? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.82.152 (talk) 01:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


Hey, To load images to wiki, you need to make your own account. Then click upload file on the left. Then click "my own work". You can then select the license of your choice and upload the image. If you dont want to create an account, I can upload the images for you if you declare "I am the creator of this image and I license it under {license of your choice}" Let me know if you need me to do so. Thanks! Nikkul (talk) 06:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)