Portal talk:Indonesia

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Featured portal The Indonesia Portal is a featured portal, which means it has been identified as one of the best portals on Wikipedia. If you see a way this portal can be updated or improved without compromising previous work, please feel free to contribute.
August 18, 2006 Featured portal candidate Promoted

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Discussion over: WikiProject Indonesia • Project Noticeboard • Portal Indonesia

Contents

[edit] Photo

If you ever need a photo of the Indonesian embassy in Wellington, New Zealand, please let me know. It is up the road from where I live. --210.86.68.57 23:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I'm going to need it. Take care -- Imoeng 00:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Construction

I just want to create extra pages, won't take long. Take care -- Imoeng 11:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Done! :) Imoeng 12:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nature

The Nature heading at the top of the potal is currently very sparse. Initially there were only Bunaken and Mamberamo linked as these were the only pages with the Category:Natural_history_of_Indonesia tag. I've started to add a few more - National Parks, Mountains, etc, but there is certainly much more to add. --Bwmodular 11:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks very much. That was also my concern, so, because I was kinda very busy creating the portal, I forgot to add this category to some articles. Cheers -- Imoeng 02:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] News section

I have a suggestion for the news section. How about put today's news as the current format (a few sentences + pictures), and the latest 5 news as headlines? Clicking to the archives may revealed old news, anyway. I'm feeling a bit crampy in the news section. — Indon 08:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Good suggestion. --Bwmodular 08:12, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Done. Now, we can have at most 2 todays news with pictures without overcrowded items. If it is not good, then please revert it. — Indon 08:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that looks better IMO. Not sure about that bird flu picture though, doesn't really work that small does it :) --Bwmodular 09:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I've made it big, but not sure if it is better. — Indon 09:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Selected Article: Bandung

Before I go into anything. Whoa! Indonesia finally got it's own wikipedia portal! I must congratulate imoeng for his great contribution! Love your userpage! Now, about the selected article. Is there a selection process for selected articles in this portal? Portal India has some sort of guidelines for selecting articles.

The meat of this section: The last listed selected article is Bandung. Scheduled for August 28. Now, the last few days there's been a great improvement on this article, but it doesn't seem to be up to par yet for an examplary wikipedia article. It doesn't even have a decent lead section that concisely summarizes the topic, among other other things. So, I suggest that this article be excluded for now. Feureau 19:23, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indonesian Did You Know

The Portal:Indonesia Did You Know (DYK) section has been setup for a periodic update, hopefully once a day. If you found something funny, interesting or unique when reading Indonesia related articles, please feel free to add 1-2 lines of trivia question in Portal:Indonesia/DYK. Please remember to add at the appropriate line (indicated in the article), and the main source article should be available and boldfaced. Thank you. — Indon (reply) — 17:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] News Section

In case its not clear, the current 'policy' for the news archive is to create news items on this page: Portal:Current_events/Southeast_Asia when we create new News items for the Indonesia portal, and this will act as an archive for the Portal News. See further discussion here: Portal talk:Indonesia/Indonesia news. --Bwmodular 15:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Fully support, agree, stuju!!. — Indon (reply) — 15:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Musical terminology

There is an increasing number of articles about indonesian music that claims a meaning for a word that has multiple meanings - and the alternative is not being identified in the article. There is a need to have some item either as a disambig (if there are more than 3 meanings say) or in a 'see also' or 'see other meanings of this word' in the article - as it represents a single meaning to a multiple meaning! It is something that needs attention before the musicologists create a nightmare for us. Anybody with any ideas on this? SatuSuro 00:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Does this pertain to the portal? Or is it a more general comment? Do you have any example articles?--Merbabu 00:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Oops - its more the project! (sorry about that) - and yes there are about ten articles I have noticed in passing - will have to go back and make a list ! SatuSuro 00:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal layout

Hi all. The "Things you can do" section is really obsolete. Any idea to renovate this? If you look Portal:Architecture, I think we can eliminate this section and add a new section to contain FA and GA articles. Any comments? — Indon (reply) — 15:48, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Can we have both? I think the "Things you can do" section is a good advertisement for the Wiki project, but it does need to be brought up to date as per Portal:Architecture or Portal:Australia. Given we don't have many GA and FA articles there should also been room to list them on the portal. Additionally, I think we need to setup a more complete TODO list for our WikiProject, as per Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board/Complete_to-do. (Caniago 23:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC))
Well, my concern is that the current "Things you do" box has never been updated nor tried to update them (by creating/translating new articles). How about for the moment (when our GA/FA is still outnumbered with other "rival" portals), we combine the "WikiProjects" and "Things you can do" together? And that "complete to-do" thing is a good idea for the project. — Indon (reply) — 08:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Merging them is ok, it's kind of what they do on the Australia portal. Regarding updates to the box, there have been updates made by me, Merbabu and Imoeng - see [1]. I suspect this box could have prompted the creation of some articles, but I do agree it needs further updates. (Caniago 10:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Nusakambangan photo

I was currently nominating Nusa Kambangan in Did You Know, if anyone has a picture of it, plis upload (don't forget about copyright ,, --- User:Arifhidayat 15.03 23 January 2007, UTC+7,

[edit] Category tagging

Please note that categories will be tagged with a non-article tag soon so that we can review what categories exist within the Indonesia Project - they will not affect anything else - any questions please check with me - please do not alter them - thanks SatuSuro 22:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terrorism

It appears that a project-wide discussion is required on the subject of how this subject is developed within the project. It has been developed over time with articles that contribute towards an understanding - by looking at the components of the larger issues. However non project editors have broached the issue - and as a project we need to find a good wikipedian consensus - or even airing of ideas as to how to approach the subject - as we have been doing by developing articles that we can deal with - with no 'speculative;' non encyclopediac style or attitude enroaching on our articles. It is a sensistive subject - but we need to deal with it, specially as there are issues creeping into the projects domain from other areas.

Any comment at all would be appreciated as to how WP Indonesia should go on this - developing the project with good encyclopediac articles and sticking to wikipedia policies. SatuSuro 23:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The English incorrectness when referring to Bahasa Indonesia as "Indonesian"

WikipediA explains that {the most accurate way of referring to Indonesia's national language in English is "Indonesian".}

WikipediA is not the only source. There are several other sources that also state "Indonesian" as being the national language of Indonesia. Perhaps it is the most popular and convenient way to say "Indonesian" as being the national language of Indonesia; Indonesian being a descriptive word for any other matter that comes from that nation.

I beg to differ with WikipediA's explanation as well as those other sources. It is incorrect to say that the most accurate way of referring to Indonesia's national language in English is "Indonesian".

Indonesian as defined by the Oxford Dictionary states as follows:

Indonesian

 • noun 1 a person from Indonesia. 2 the group of languages spoken in Indonesia. 

 • adjective relating to Indonesia

The correct expression of Indonesia's lingua franca would either be "Bahasa Indonesia" or "Indonesian language" (the latter almost being a word for word translation of "Bahasa ".)

Indonesian from a language description does not point to Indonesia's lingua franca. It could point to any of the over 100 different languages that are spoken in Indonesia.

Not accurate although easier and for brevity, to use "bahasa" is a short way. To use the term "bahasa" in English would still be better than using "Indonesian". Some would find that still an arguable point.

There are several English Dictionaries that include the word "bahasa" in its lexicon. This is a sign that the foreign word "bahasa" is gradually being accepted in the English lexicon. The English Dictionaries that include the word "bahasa" explain "bahasa" as either being Bahasa Indonesia or Bahasa Malaysia, the lingua franca of the said countries.

Of course, the word "bahasa" by itself connotes "language". Therefore, as I indicated earlier, it would not be accurate to say "bahasa" when referring to Bahasa Indonesia. In doing so it would be just as inaccurate as using the word "Indonesian" to mean Bahasa Indonesia. "Bahasa" could also refer any of the various languages such as Bahasa Java, Bahasa Padang, Bahasa Bugis so and and so forth, that are spoken throughout the vast Indonesian archipelago.

I cannot explain why other English Dictionaries have not yet included the word "bahasa". These have reasons of their own in not doing so and a plausible reason in not being up to date.

However, the main issue here is not about using the word "bahasa" to mean Bahasa Indonesia. The main issue here as I began this submission, is that "Indonesian" is an incorrect English reference for Bahasa Indonesia, the national language of Indonesia.

Take the Merriam-Webster as a clearer example. The Merriam-Webster has the full term "Bahasa Indonesia" in their Dictionary and explains it as:

Bahasa Indonesia

Main Entry: Ba·ha·sa In·do·ne·sia Pronunciation: \bə-ˌhä-sə-ˌin-də-ˈnē-zhə, -shə\ Function: noun Etymology: Indonesian bahasa indonésia, literally, Indonesian language

Despite that there are English Dictionaries do not include "Bahasa Indonesia" in their lexicon. To use the term "Indonesian" is incorrect in English for Indonesia's lingua franca. Reasons being:

1. As a noun it would mean a citizen of Indonesia.Or it would mean any of the languages that is spoken by the peoples of Indonesia. 2. As an adjective it would be a titular description for whatever that relates to Indonesia.

To wit the English translation of the Indonesian Constitution, wherein it declares :

To quote:

The 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia Department of Information

Republic of Indonesia 1989

“Chapter XV. The Flag and the Language

Article 35

The national flag of Indonesia shall be the red-and-white.

Article 36

The national language of Indonesia shall be the Bahasa Indonesia or the Indonesian language. Unquote.

Note the English expression. Bahasa Indonesia or the Indonesian language.

The other closest English expression being the Indonesian language. It is not referred to as Indonesian.

As a matter of convenience or wide albeit incorrect usage, the English reference for the lingua franca is "Indonesian".

Allow me to cite I two hypothetical scenarios to explain further how ambiguous "Indonesian" would be when referring it as Bahasa Indonesia.

Question to first person: Do you speak Indonesian? Answer from first person: Yes, I do (because the first person is one of many who accepts that Indonesian means Bahasa Indonesia.)

Question to second person: Do you speak Indonesian? Answer from second person: Which one? (because the second person does not know that Indonesian means Bahasa Indonesia. To him it could be any of the hundreds of different languages spoken througout Indonesia.)

May I conclude my submission with yet another hypothetical scenario with regards to the ambiguity in using "Indonesian".

Question to a foreigner : Do you know Indonesian? Answer from the foreigner : Yes, I do. (because the foreigner knows the question pertains to the lingua franca of Indonesia.)

Question to a Papuan cannibal : Do you know Indonesian? Answer from the cannibal : Yes, I have eaten them too; men, women, children - why do you ask?

Elangit (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)elangit