Talk:In God We Trust

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Contents

[edit] Copyright

Much of this information is copied verbatim from http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

That's OK. That's the official web site of the U.S. Treasury Department. The U.S. government cannot hold copyright, and Wikipedia is free to use this material. -- Beland 05:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
So it is not copyright violation. But it remains poor referencing (to fail to use quotes to show where actual wording is another author's. It would improve the article to rewrite the copied material. doncram (talk) 20:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talk

I suspect that my recent modifications may encounter religiously biased opposition; however, I have worked very hard to only present the situation in a more balance light. I have not deleted any of the supportive text, only included crucial content that improves the accuracy of the article. This an important concept, of particular relevance as a Current Event. (metavalent 03:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC))

I added a "citation needed" here: "Though many believe[citation needed] that the 1956 act disregarded an already existing national motto...." That "Though many believe" sounds like politically-motivated weasel words without a corresponding citation, however much I personally might agree with those politics. Instead, what would be best I think is "Though some critics such as Joe Schmoe[citation] believe that the 1956 act disregarded...."Jusbigboned (talk) 17:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Old talk

Evilweevil 19:54, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC): Somebody should add links to the Newdow v. United States Congress case.

Siliconman 11:40, 22 September 2005 (EDT): I think that Aronow v. United States is more relevant than Newdow

Orbit 5 Dec 2004: Nice job keeping a clean simple explination of the issue.


The following doesn't seem to make sense...

A law passed by the 84th United States Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956. The President approved a joint resolution declaring In God We Trust the national motto of the United States.

The first part is not a sentence. I don't know what the actual meaning behind this should be, or what exactly a joint resolution is, so I haven't changed it. As it stands its not exactly innacurate, just nonsensical :) Jasongetsdown 21:25, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

-- Ah, it's missing a "was" between the "law" and "passed." If it's not already fixed I'll do so now. Lamarcus 20:30, 28 January 2005


"Was" is understood even if omitted and is seen in common usage. It doesn't matter either way.69.6.162.160 21:04, 14 June 2006 (UTC)Brian Pearson

[edit] Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? reference

Take a look at the "Llewelyn-Bowen second chance" section of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? (UK game show). Perhaps this should be added to "Cultural references", or perhaps it's not relevant enough to include here. violet/riga (t) 18:54, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Date of introduction on coinage

The article states "The first United States coin to bear this national motto was the 1864 two-cent piece. It first appeared on U.S. currency on the back of Florida National Bank Notes in 1863. It wasn't until 1957 that the motto was permanently adopted for use on United States currency.". Later, the article states "Since 1938, all coins have borne the motto. " Does that means that all coins bore them from 1938 and that in 1957 this was made"permanent" ir a decision made for future as welas current coinage? Or does it mean that coinage prior to 1957 sometimes had the motto and sometimes did not? The article should be clarified, and it seems that the 1938 date merits adding to the introduction. --Nantonos 09:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

What has you is the differentiation between coinage and currency, where currency is paper money.

[edit] Teddy Roosevelt Letter

Int he part about the history of the motto where it discusses Teddy Roosevelt's feeling on the motto being on money, italics and bolds are added that are not in the original, cited text. I am editing the italics and bold out.--Henrybaker 21:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] God and Money?

I'm not religious, I'm agnostic.. (I'm not an atheist)... but how can someone put the word God on money? Isn't that like putting the phrase "I love you" on a bullet in a shotgun? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.150.227.201 (talk • contribs) 03:05, March 15, 2007

Wait, what? TheSittingDuck 23:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Not really. God and money don't contradict each other, they're just 2 parts of life (yes, for some it isn't, I just can't think of a better way to word it.).

Where have you been? Money IS God. Money creates nations and destroys them. It makes the world go round. I think the U.S. is the perfect nation to label money as 'God'.

-G

Courts don't have a problem with it, apparently... Aronow_v._United_States. 67.190.124.18 16:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

hi


Well first off I think a lot people really need to do some research on God, America, the Constitution, all of it. Yes many our for fathers were religious. Many things yes and no were based on religion when America was being born. BUT GOD, MONEY AND AMERICA ARE ALL SEPERATE THINGS. Yes everyone has freedom of religion. But no need to go several years later go and change what have been "TRADITIONS" of the United States for years and years and years. Just another way for power hungry people to go and control the people and take away our freedom. I think America needs to get back to reality. We all have forgotten were our roots came from. Why we came to America. Money and power isn't everything....people just think it is.

It's particularly interesting in light of the point Jesus made about taxation by pointing out that Caesar's face was on the coinage. What point could he have made if it had Caesar's picture but God's name? You can keep some for yourself and give some to the government? Some for everyone, and some for God? ^^' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 15:30, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

I cleaned this section up a bit. Fixed lots of spelling errors and bad grammar. Also removed about half a paragraph that had nothing to do with the article, and just sounded like someone who's a bit irate at the system blowing off some steam. You can put it back if you want - as a casual reader, I can tell you it made this article lose all credibility upon reading. Uncreative 16:52, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It is still littered with weaselness and seemingly OR, all these "some people", "others" or "they" need to be replaced with specific names, places, facts and citations. SGGH speak! 19:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Is the weasel word banner really still necessary? It seems to me to be pretty well cited now. Can someone point out what I'm missing, or am I right about it being fixed now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.110.26.183 (talk) 06:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In God We Trust

does "in god we trust" really mean in god we trust? or does it mean "we don't trust anyone/anything"? In the sense of the scientific method (don't believe anything you have been told one thing is and find out what that thing is for yourself). Or maybe as an intimidating phrase. └Nitro4ce┘┌t┐  17:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unconstitutionality in the introduction

I've removed the unsubstantiated "(although technically unconstitutional)" statement from the introduction. It is entirely unnecessary there, especially considering that no court has deemed it unconstitutional, and it is currently a matter of great debate which is expounded on later in the article. An absolute statement like that with no substantive backing in the introduction of the article is improper. 204.155.56.3 18:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I really don't like the current intro disclaimer: "(although in this context it is technically meaningless ceremonialism with no connection to any religious concept)" On whose authority is "in god we trust" technically meaningless? And how can "in god we trust" not have a connection to "any religious concept" - perhaps the concept of "god"?Wuicker 00:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Material copied from a public source

The article seems well-written and for the most part well-sourced. In my view it is too bad that there's need for a tag saying approximately that "contains text from public domain source", referring to the "In Coins We Trust" brochure. It impugns the work done by wikipedia editors in the rest of the article, as you can't tell which is merely copied from that source. Can't the specific material from the one source be identified and put in proper quotes, then remove that tag, instead? It doesn't matter that it is public domain or not, proper referencing, including use of quotation marks to indicate wording is from a published source, is needed. doncram (talk) 17:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Official Justification?

I'm european and this "In god we trust"-thing is a bit irritating to me. What is the official justification why it is okay to make an exception to your church-state-separation in this case? 84.59.125.170 (talk) 18:59, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Official Justification? We don't need no steeenkeeeng Official Justification. It's irrational, but there it is. No need to be irritated about it -- especially if you're not a US citizen. If you are a US citizen and are irritated, write your congressman—unless, of course, you happen to be a nonresident expat or a Puerto-Rican and thereby have no Congressional representation. (Hmmmm.... wasn't there something about "No taxation without representation"? That's been forgotten, it seems.) For some expansion on the info in the article, see some of the cited sources—the lower-left corner of this, or this, for example. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Come on, is it really THAT easy to ignore such a fundamental concept of your country? I'm sure there must be a statement somewhere on when it is okay to ignore state-church-separation, right? Like, would it be okay to put something like "Have a nice reincarnation!" on your money or is this exception only made for abrahamic religions? 84.59.125.170 (talk) 10:33, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I am irritated about it.--68.6.121.65 (talk) 04:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] questions to address?

"the phrase can also be found on the license plates of Indiana, North Carolina, South Carolina and Ohio"

It seems curious that the national motto could be used by states which do not share it as their own motto, like a form of plagiarism or identify theft. States aren't free to use other national things as they like, like calling the national flag their state flag, or having their own rules about how to use it. It would be interesting to know more about how these states decided to/were able to do this.

"However, by 1956 it had not been established so by legislation as the official "national motto", and therefore "In God We Trust" was selected."

The "therefore" suggests that "In God We Trust" was adopted as the motto precisely and only because "E Pluribus Unum" had not been, which doesn't make any sense. Шизомби (talk) 18:08, 20 April 2008 (UTC)