Talk:Imperial House of Japan

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[edit] Scope

"Imperial Household of Japan" is so prevalently a concept that begins from Meiji Era, that I would restrict the article's substantial content to the past century and so. Earlier history is somehow so separate and seems a fragment of much more relevant content that is residing in clearly other articles. Do we have e.g Imperial Dynasty of Japan. Arrigo 18:01, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Prince Akishino's Child

His Imperial Highness Prince of Akishino (born 6 September 2006) at 8:27 AM (2327 GMT) and weighed 5.64 pounds.

Is that weight correct? 5.64 pounds would be rather small. On the other hand, 5.64 kilograms would be rather large. Nik42 13:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marriage outside imperial family

I think this line from the article requires revising:

In an effort to control the size of the imperial family, the law stipulates that only legitimate male descendants in the male line can be dynasts; that imperial princes and princesses lose their status as imperial family-members if they marry outside the imperial family; and that the Emperor and other members of the Imperial Family may not adopt children.

If I am reading this correctly, then don't all imperial family members need to marry their sisters or brothers or cousins in order to remain within the imperial family? Also, Crown Prince Naruhito married Masako (not a member of the imperial family) but remains the crown prince, contradicting the above statement. Any explanations before I revise? -Sarfa 01:17, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

You're right. That's an error. Princesses lose their status if they mary outside the imperial family, but princes do not. For example, the Emperor's daughter, the former Princess Sayako, is now a commoner named Sayako Nori, because of her marriage to a commoner. Nik42 01:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
The former Princess Sayako assumed the name Kuroda Sayako upon her marriage to Kuroda Yoshiki on 15 November 2005. Nori no miya was her childhood appelation as the daughter of the crown prince (and from 1989, the emperor). --Duke of Yarmouth 03:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Oops. I knew that, I just got those two mixed up. Nik42 05:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relation To Baekjae

Japanese imperial household and Baekjae do not have the marriage relation.

1.She is a daughter of "Clan naturalized in Japan" and "Japanese clan". Father of Takano no Niigasa(Emperor Kammu's mother) was Yamato-Fumi clan. And, mother of Takano-Nigasa was Haji clan. Haji-Clan is an aborigine in Japan. Yamato-Fumi clan was begun by the great-grandchild of child "Prince Sunta" naturalized in Japan of Muryeong of Baekje. Takano's father is Yamato clan's the sixth generation successor.

2. Historical grounds are low. Akihito that considered Korea spoke the episode of Takano no Niigasa. However, According to history professor Lee-Keun-Woo of Pukyong National University, Prince Sunta doesn't exist in the history book on Korea. Perhaps, To improve her authority, her family pedigree is fabricated.

(新笠が武寧王の後裔かどうかも明らかではない。続日本紀という史料には武寧王の太子淳陀後裔だと記されているが、韓国側の史料には淳陀という名は確認できない。 その他色々、非常に疑わしい。桓武天皇の出自を潤色するために行われた粉飾だったのではないか。- 李根雨・釜慶大学校史学科教授「現代コリア2005年6月号」より )　

Therefore, I delete this part if there is no rebuttal. --Princesunta (talk) 10:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I was asked for my opinion on this, but I have no knowledge of the imperial house. Sorry. RogueNinjatalk 13:11, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I was asked for my opinion too, but my knowledge about the period is so little that I have nothing to comment about this. Sorry that I couldn't help. Regards. Oda Mari (talk) 13:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I was also asked for a comment. I have no idea about the topic because I'm not familiar with it. Around this period, many foreigners came to Japan from current China and Korea. They were hired by the Imperial Court, and gradually became Japanese. Everybody has so many ancestors, and often has one or more foreign roots. This topic only shows the fact "Everybody has so many ancestors". Why do we highlight such a trivia? The topic is described in Takano no Niigasa, and I think that is enough. The relationship between Baekjae and Imperial House is not a big issue for Imperial House. It was not a Marriage of convenience. Relationship with Fujiwara and Sekke is far more important.--Mochi (talk) 17:07, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

As requested, here's my comment as well, based on the Japanese Wikipedia article ja:高野新笠 (Takano no Niigasa)... Emperor Akihito's statement is based on the accuracy of the Shoku Nihongi, which claims that Prince Sunta (純陁太子) was a son of King Muryeong of Baekje (百済武寧王). This claim remains controversial, because Prince Sunta (純陁太子) never appears in any Korean records. As this claim remains controversial, it may be notable enough for the article on Takano no Niigasa, but perhaps not for the Imperial House of Japan as a whole.--Endroit (talk) 17:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for advice. After 150 years the ruin of Baekjae, Emperor Kanmu was born. His mother was Yamato-Fumi clan. They had already been naturalized in Japan though her clan was Baekjae royal family's descendant. She was not a princess of Baekjae, and married the emperor as Yamato-Fumi clan's daughter. --Princesunta (talk) 10:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Several concerns about Princesunta (talk · contribs)

relevant link:Talk:Sea_of_Japan#2channel meatpuppets from 朝鮮人のWikipedia（ｳｨｷﾍﾟﾃﾞｨｱ）捏造に対抗せよ 21

1. First off, who are you? You're obviously socking per your account creation (you registered yesterday) and history of this article. Azukimonaka (talk · contribs)(ips are confirmed as his), Amazonfire (talk · contribs), 2008FromKawasaki (talk · contribs)(just blocked today) have been so eager to erase the content. If you're sock (aside from meat dolls from 2channel), why would I waste my time here to talk to you?

2. 純陁太子's name is not directly recorded in any existing Korean history document so far. However, Japanese history book like 続日本紀 mentioned his name and his rank in Baekje. According to Samguk Sagi, a son of King Muryeong or 元子 (crown prince) became King Seong and his death date was unclear and believed that his was Sunta.

3. The controversy itself is notable enough to be included. Almost notable theories are included in Wikipedia such as Goguryo related articles. Why do you want to delete it?

4. The interview with Akihito is not arbitrary because one of his uncle secretly visited to South Korea to serve a Japanese traditional ceremony for ancestor. I assume you can read Korean (If you're Koreakorea1 (talk · contribs) or Cvcc (talk · contribs), the confirmed socks, you should find a good translation tool), so read the article.

It is later discovered that Asakanomiya, an uncle of Emperor Akihito visited to the tomb of King Muryeong in Gongju, South Chungcheong Province to worship the king.[1]

  1. ^ Sohn, Gyu-seong (손규성). "일 왕족 무령왕릉 참배", Gongju, South Korea: The Hankyoreh, 2004-08-05. (Korean) "아사카노미야씨를 안내한 이 전 부여문화원장은 “백제 무령왕의 후손인 일본 왕족들의 무령왕릉에 대한 관심이 매우 크다”며 “이들의 무령왕릉 방문은 일본내 여론을 의식해 비공식적으로 이뤄졌다”고 말했다." 

5. The contents has been addressed for over 8 months added by Jjok (talk · contribs), so wait for his opinion. --Appletrees (talk) 16:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

You are confused. Please discuss whether the Yamato-Atai clan is a Baekje royal family. --Princesunta (talk) 10:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't confuse unlike you. You're the one who revet the revision to have been here for 8 months, so you need to clarify your true idenity, odn.user[1] --Appletrees (talk) 13:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Your important historical ground is not our important historical ground. You should explain the reason for important historical ground.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.213.118.162 (talk)
Well, your statement does explain nothing but denial without your ground, so why explain why it is not your minor historical fact. I already provided the above citation. --Appletrees (talk) 01:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
You presented only "Slander to the user" and "Ear duster without the source". Please explain "Historical value" concisely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.168.215.11 (talk) 07:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Ha, you, dion ISP user prove yourself to commit such the horrendous "ad hominem" attack on me. --Appletrees (talk) 19:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] important historical ground

Please explain historical value of Takano no Nigasa. If she has important value, we should write her.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.168.215.11 (talk)

Oh, I missed the same argument without any reason. I added my comment right below the thread. She is not only a Korean descendant in Japanese house. --Appletrees (talk) 14:28, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese complex? Korean complex?

changed the title by "alphabet order" for equality. --Appletrees (talk) 14:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

changed the title by "Korean complex". Because there is no explanation about the Japanese complex at all.

--Princesunta (talk) 14:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

"J goes before K" as usual for your party's insistence. Your "insistence" itself proves the Japanese complex more than enough. I already provided you that an uncle of the emperor secretly visited to the tomb of King Muryeong in South Korea in order to serve a ceremonial worship for their ancestor. He said he worried about Japanese public who are very sensitive at anything related Baekje, ancient kingdom of Korea. Thus that is Japanese complex. If you don't like the subtitle named as "Japanese complex" then, play fair. Who put Korean complex in the title first? You! --Appletrees (talk) 05:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

According to JoongAng Ilbo(big three newspapers in Korea) To recover from the modern mortifications received from the imperialism of Japan, Korean people relates Japanese imperial household's origin to Korea. [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.218.129.55 (talk) 14:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

How Kamosuke or Azukimonaka-like comment. However, I understand your "alergic reaction" like tatoo according to the source. JongAng Ilbo owns "big tree newspapers in Korea"? Wow, the company is really gigantic newspaper company. --Appletrees (talk) 01:07, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

This page explains Japanese imperial household's system. The part that you forcibly inserted will give the reader a strong sense of incompatibility. --221.243.158.122 (talk) 11:17, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

That is all your rationale for your "insistence" to remove the important historical ground? That is your POV, so please give a plausible rationale. Besides, if I'm the only one to include the info, why Jjok (talk · contribs) inserted the contents and continuous edit warrig occurred even though when I was out? --Appletrees (talk) 16:13, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
important historical ground? Please explain what influence you gave to the history of Japan (history of Imperial House of Japan ). Emperor Saga's grandmother is Chinese Japanese. What of Takano no Nigasa and her is different? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.168.215.11 (talk) 07:37, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, somebody added a very interesting information on Yayoi period but it was blanked by Amagase (talk · contribs). After checked on the source, the latter is partially right on the point that the content does not fit the Yayoi period but Heian period or this article. Shinsen shoji roku (新撰姓氏錄), the royal genealogy book proves that Japanese imperial house is indeed rooted from the Baekje royal house. "日本の神話を考える" (ISBN 4094600655) written by a noted Japanese historian and emeritus professor at Kyoto University, Ueda Masaaki (上田正昭) presents such claim. He is also famous for his analysis on Chiljido, one of evidences for Wa of Japan was a colony of Baekje (倭国の世界 (1976年)). You know that Shinsen shoji roku was written by commission of Emperor Kammu, whose mother was a Korean descendant. With the book, the 30th emperor Bidatsu was also a Korean. The section has many potential to be expanded indeed, so what is your rationale? --Appletrees (talk) 14:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I regret that Appletrees edited it based on such history knowledge.
Ueda Masaaki introduces the difference point and the common feature of the myth of Korea and the myth of Japan. [3]
"The Bidatsu emperor is Korean" is one of the ear dusters that the South Korean tried to make popular. [4][5][6] "大原真人 出自謚敏達孫百済王也" is translated into "Ohara no mahito takayasu is Bidatu emperor's king grandchild's Kudara descendant.". However, South Koreans misinterpreted it. "The grandchild of Bidatu is a royal family of Baekje. Therefore, Bidatu is South Korean." 百済王 is a name of a person. The Baekje coming from is written 出自百済國. For instance, father of Takano Nigasa is written like this. "和史乙継 出自百済國都慕王十八世孫武寧王也" --Princesunta (talk) 04:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
You regret? www That's a good one. You visit here with the ID as I'm getting to almost forget this matter. Your appearance always draw my attention back to the ancient history of Japan. Yeah, I'm studying it hard. I have to take a nap, so see yeah soooooooooon--Appletrees (talk) 05:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)