Talk:Impalement arts

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Date: 15:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
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Contents

[edit] Initial comments

Sorry, haven't got the hang of messaging on here yet (took long enough to figure out the formatting). This is essentially in reply to J Milburn. I wrote the Impalement Arts entry from scratch (using sources which I hope I have fully attributed). Circusandmagicfan 22:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan


The Exceptional Newcomer Award
Awarded to Circusandmagicfan for possibly the best first article, and certainly best first edit, I have ever seen- impalement arts. Keep it up! J Milburn 16:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

It appears User:Beetstra has taken exception to the links that were included in the lists of impalement artists. I accept that some were perhaps not up to Wikipedia requierements but others were legitimate references. I will go through those lists and try to improve them. I'll aim where possible to add a little information on each artist and then give a proper citation. Circusandmagicfan 13:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

(PS: Dirk, I accidentally reverted your edits when adding a couple of minor additions (due to having multiple copies of the page open in different tabs) - you will see that I un-did my goof by reverting to your last edit and then re-doing the additions.)

[edit] History

I'd like to improve the history section as I feel it is a little thin at the moment. If you are interested and have information but don't have time to edit then perhaps you could post details of sources here and I will do the work. Circusandmagicfan 09:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

[edit] Related arts

It might be helpful to mention relationships with juggling and conjuring. For example, juggling sharp/dangerous objects, especially when they are passed between and/or around a person, seems somewhat similar. And a number of magic tricks, especially large illusions, involve a visual effect of actual (or threatened) impalement by swords or bullets or whatever. Then there is Ricky Jay, who used Cards as Weapons (and wrote Learned Pigs and Fireproof Women). Mention of such connections would both differentiate this art, and place it in a larger context (circus arts, vaudeville).

In cinema, the plot of the James Bond film Octopussy involves a circus, and knife throwers are important both earlier and later in the story. While this may not be the greatest exemplar of the art, it is one of the more visible ones.

Finally, I'm curious about the shortage of Asian performers; Zen archery is certainly a related exhibition of skill, and one would think that martial arts training might produce entertainers. --KSmrqT 22:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The connection to other dangerous circus acts is partly taken care of through "See also" section and by inclusion of this article in Circus Arts category. Discussion of general connections/similarities between dangerous circus arts is probably best done in general article on circus arts. However Ricky Jay's "Cards as weapons" thing might be worth a mention somewhere - just need to figure out where.
I'll check out the details of Octopussy and add it to the "Filem & TV" section when I have time.
I'm also curious about the absence of notable Asian performers - sadly I've just not encountered any and none of my contacts in the performance world have mentioned any. I don't know about "Zen archery" - guess I'll re-read the archery article.
Circusandmagicfan 20:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

[edit] Biographical edits by subjects

I thought people werent supposed to write stuff about themselves (I think the place it says this is WP:SELFPUB and Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest, although I just wrote WP:BIO in an edit sum). Anyways I just reverted some edits for that reason. Kid Zed (talk) 16:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)Kid_Zed

I'm not sure I'm entering this response in the correct place or fashion, but here goes...
The text I entered about myself follows the criteria stipulated in the WP:SELFPUB information below. All information is verifiable.
   * it is relevant to their notability;
   * it is not contentious;
   * it is not unduly self-serving;
   * it does not involve claims about third parties;
   * it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
   * there is no reasonable doubt as to who wrote it;
   * the article is not based primarily on such sources.
I have therefore "undone" your deletions.
Jackdagger (talk) 06:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but Jack Dagger's editing DOES break both the Wikipedia guidelines. It breaks WP:SELFPUB because it is self serving. It break several parts of WP:Conflict of Interest including the following:

"It is not recommended to write an article about yourself. If you are notable, someone else will notice you and write the article. In some cases, Wikipedia users write articles about themselves when the more appropriate action would be to create a user page. In these cases, the article is normally moved into the user namespace rather than deleted. If you believe you may be notable enough, make your case on the appropriate talk pages, and seek consensus first, both with the notability and any proposed autobiography."

JD, you need to learn Wikipedia etiquette before you come wading in and writing stuff about yourself. I will be reverting those edits again because they are just SO against the spirit of the rules.
Kid Zed (talk) 15:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)Kid_Zed
It seems to me that both sides of this dispute have a case. I think Jack Dagger merits inclusion on the basis that he is an established performer who has been honoured by knife throwing bodies. However writing his own entry is a classic breach of Wiki guidelines (the sort of thing that would probably get an article deleted if he was the sole subject). As a compromise I will try to write some text that is more neutral.Circusandmagicfan (talk) 21:44, 19 December 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

[edit] Safety record?

What's the safety record of these acts? Have a lot of people been injured or killed? --69.255.17.40 (talk) 11:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know of any deaths. I'm aware of at least one very serious injury (Catherine Jamet of Duo Grey Arrow injured in a crossbow act) and several other injuries that came close to being very nasty. The article mentions Catherine Jamet. It also mentions the minor injury suffered by Yana Rodianova when she was assisting Jayde Hanson in a knife throwing record attempt on a TV show. Are you suggesting there should be a separate sub-section on safety? I've not thought that was necessary (I've tried to point out in the text that safety/risk is a very genuine issue eg. in the intro). I'm open to suggestions though. Circusandmagicfan (talk) 23:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

[edit] Tasks to do

I'm making a start on going through all the refs to IMDB entries and converting them to the stock wiki template format - ie. {{imdb title|id=****|title=****}}. Circusandmagicfan (talk) 14:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

[edit] GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Impalement arts/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

[edit] Initial Review Started

First impression after one read: definitely one for the Newcomer award the author received. More to come... Glane23 (talk) 21:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)