Talk:Ilyo Voyvoda
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[edit] Sources
Ok, so there are two sources that say he was Bulgarian (one of witch is more than reliable as it is from a revolutionary/writer who lived at the time). I can even put the ottoman census of the time as a source, cause it says there were no Ethnic Macedonians in the beginning of the XIX century. --Laveol T 10:58, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, there are many sources saying that there were no ethnic Macedonians in the beginning of the XIX century, just as there are many sources saying that there are no ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria TODAY. INkubusse 14:14, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually there are - 1424 or so at the last census. Maybe as much as 30000 now as a lot of Republic of Macedonia citizens have Bulgarian citizenship now. --Laveol T 14:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, those 30000 people from The Republic of Macedonia identified as ethnic Bulgarians are as such were granted citizenship. There are very few people in Bulgaria who identify as ethnic Macedonians / you put the number at 1424 only /. In the Ottoman censuses there is no "Macedonian" category.
Well, you got the answer! There "are" 1424 Macedonians in Bulgaria. Now, I tell you that there are more than 200 000 people in Bulgaria who consider them as Macedonians (because their parents felt like the same way) and this is NOT something I've read somewhere or even worse, heard.. I have heard this with my own ears and seen it with my own eyes - from them (not all 200000 of course :D)! If you don't believe me, I can't change the way you think. But the poor people from UMO Ilinden-Pirin are making everyday efforts for the WORLD to believe it! I'm trying to say that even today's data about the population of the Balkans is pure garbage, and we can just imagine about THEN! INkubusse 20:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
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- During World War II the whole population of what is now the Republic of Macedonia "felt" they were Bulgarian, and so what? It means your grandparents changed the way they feel from Bulgarian (up to 1912-1913) to Serbian (until 1939) to Bulgarian again (to 1945) and then to ethnic Macedonian till today. Have you been to Bulgaria? I don't imagine so considering statements like yours. And if you have - how many people you met thought they were ethnic macedonians and not Macedonian Bulgarians as everybody in Blagoevgrad and the surrounding area feel they are? Let Bulgarians be Bulgarians and be whatever you want yourself. The Bold poor people from UMO Ilinden - that was rich. You know all of your strange stuff is considered such a funny joke in Bulgaria and especially in the Pirin part of it. And none of your racist blogs, none of your ultramacedonistic newspapers can change this. They just make it look more pitiful. --Laveol T 22:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
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- I suppose have never been in macedonia laveol. You say funny things that your propaganda serves you. Come to Macedonia, come to Bitola, take a walk trough bitola villages there are plenty of centarians and ask them what they felt before '39, '25, ask what they parents felt like and tell me: what did you hear? When i asked my grandma did her parents feel bulgarians she said: "there were no bulgarians at that time". For example, my surname is older than 400 years and it ends with -ski all that time; it was changed to -ic when serbians came and to -ov when bulgarians came, and after the war it was again -ski. see this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AycvH342zyU&feature=PlayList&p=A22120BAF9E373DA&index=53 (look at Yane's 'soborec')--strich3D 09:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
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- I'm full of stories like this, too, you know. Part of my family still lives somewhere in the Republic of Macedonia, but we have (or better say my grandparents) lost track of them in the 70-ies. They had the same family as mine, only ending in -ski (they were forced to add the -ski, but still thought they were Bulgarian deep into the communist regime). And then at some point there letters have stopped coming. Noone knows what happened to them. I'm pretty sure it wasn't healthy to feel Bulgarian at the time so either something 'happened' to them or they suddenly were forced to change their views. You can be forced to do anything and tell your children anything is their life is at stake, I guess. --Laveol T 11:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Category
Please do not reinsert the Macedonian revolutionary category. The person is clearly not ethnic Macedonian, as he never described as such. Refer to Wikipedia:Fringe theories. Also Inkubusse, do try to remain civil. If you want to insert a Macedonian category, consider "People from the region of Macedonia" as an alternative. ForeignerFromTheEast 23:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
- Don't say he's clearly not Macedonian, because nothing is clear with these revolutionaries from the 1900s. He's considered an ethnic Macedonian (although not by the majority) and he deserves the category. iNkubusse? 11:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
He never was revolutionary from 1900s. All about him is clear! Jingby 15:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
