Talk:Ilya Repin

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    Coppied from User talk:Fisenko#Ilya Yefimovich Repin Don't you consider Repin's contribution to Ukrainian culture significant enough to be mwntioned in the article?--AndriyK 17:02, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

    Aside from Zaporozhian Cossack painting majority of his contributions were clearly to Russian culture. The article already mentions the fact he was born in Ukraine, but I'm not sure it is enough to call him a Ukrainian painter. For example someone like David Burliuk would be a Ukrainian painter, while Taras Shevchenko would be Ukrainian poet, but Mikhail Bulgakov (just like Repin) Ukrainian-born Russian writer.

    Fisenko 17:50, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

    Zaporozhian Cossack painting was not the only his contribution to Ukrainian culture. Repin is indeed different from Bulgakov, who indeed contributed only to Russian culture. Read more about it. Then we discuss. OK? --AndriyK 19:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

    Repin has a lot of paintings to mention him as ukrainian painter. Adv94 09:57, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

    Can you elaborate which paintings do you refer to? Did he ever used Ukrainian language for his essays and critical works? Did he lived in Ukraine for a reasonable time as an adult? Was he ever close to any independence movement? abakharev 11:30, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
    Sorry, I don't have time to translate it right now, but I'll do this soon:
    залишив багату й різноманітну мист. спадщину; його ранні розписи церков на Україні знищені під час війни; численні жанрові, побутові картини, портрети і твори на іст. теми зберігаються в музеях Росії, України та у приватних зб.
    на укр. теми: «Запорожці пишуть листа тур. султанові» (1880-91) — один варіянт у Москві, другий -, у Харківському Держ. Музеї Образотворчого Мистецтва; «Вечерниці» (1881), «Гайдамака» (1902), «Чорноморська вольниця» (1903), «Гопак» (1930; не закінчений); численні портрети діячів рос., укр. культури серед ін.: С. Любицької, М. Мурашка (1877), М. Костомарова, В. Тарновського (1880; «Гетьман») і С. Тарновської, Т. Шевченка (1888), Д. Багалія (1906); чотири ескізи проєк• ту пам'ятника Шевченкові у Києві (на конкурс 1910 — 14); ілюстрації до творів М. Гоголя «Тарас Бульба» і «Сорочинський ярмарок» (1872 — 82), кн. Д. Яворницького «Запоріжжя в залишках старовини і переказах народу» (1887), рисунки з пам'яток укр. архітектури, укр. нар. типів тощо.
    --AndriyK 11:40, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
    Vasnetsov and Vrubel also painted churches in Ukraine, and so what? The birth place is irrelevant. Rudyard Kipling was born and lived in India: does it qualify him as an Indian poet? Seneca was born in Spain, but he didn't become Spanish because of that. Nathalie Sarraute was born in Ivanovo of Russian parents, but nobody considers her a Russian writer. Mickiewicz was born in Belarus, but still remains the national poet of Poland. Schopenhauer was born in Poland, but he is hardly a Polish philosopher. Sigmund Freud was born in Bohemia, does it make him a Czech psychologist? I could continue for hours, although I'm sure that nothing would persuade a nationalist. --Ghirlandajo 11:48, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
    I did not speak about the birth place. (I do not clame that Mikail Bulgakov or Joseph Conrad are "Ukrainian writers"). The point is that Repin indeed contributed to Ukrainian culture and there is no reason to hide this fact from the reader.--AndriyK 11:56, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
    Dozens Russian artists contributed to Ukrainian culture. Vrubel and Vasnetsov painted St Vladimir's Cathedral, Rastrelli and Ivan Michurin created St Andrew's Church in Kiev. Ingres painted portraits for Russian nobles, but he is not Russian on this account. Several contributions can't dictate the artist's nationality. Repin has always been considered (and considered himself) a national Russian painter, and you can't change neither history nor his own opinion. --Ghirlandajo 12:00, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

    Repin also contributed to Belorussian culture, not only does he painted Ukrainian peasant girls, but there are also paintings on Belorussia themes [1]. Should we call Repin a Belorussian as well now ? Fisenko 15:25, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

    I think that there is absolutely no doubt that Repin contributed considerably to Ukrainian culture and helped awaken Ukrainian national feelings during a time of dark political reaction. It is a mark of his great merit that Russians and Ukrainians both claim him for their own today. Athough he was of ethnic Russian ancestry (military colonists in eastern Ukraine) he was born, raised, and undertook his first painting in Ukraine; he painted frequently on Ukrainian themes, and had lifelong friendships with many leading personalities of Ukrainian culture with whom he seemed to sympthize. For these reasons, I believe, Yevhen Onatsky in his Mala Ukrainska Entsyklopediia, III, 1579, called him "the most outstanding painter of Ukrainian birth" (naivydatnishyi maliar ukrainskoho rodu). But he never actually seems to have called himself "a Ukrainian". Yevhen Chykalenko, in his Spohady (Memoirs) (New York, 1955)p. 189-90, writes that he wrote to Repin on the question and Repin replied that although he had been born in Ukraine "he did not feel himself a Ukrainian (ne pochuvaie sebe Ukraintsem) and that in general "Little Russia" had been so integrated into "Great Russia" that it had forever created "an indivisible Russia"... etc. etc...." Perhaps it is most accurate to say, with the author of one of his biographies, that Repin was "a painter from Ukraine" who was not indifferent to the fate of his native land.Mike Stoyik 04:54, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

    Your explanation was most helpful. Thanks, Ghirla -трёп- 07:12, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Attempt to create a policy on Nationalities

    Please take part in the discussion on Portal:Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board#Nationality in biographies abakharev 23:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

    [edit] Minor corrections

    Very good biography on Repin. I made minor changes in phrasing, and a correction of spelling.

    JNW 16:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Cites, please

    Article contains many assertions of fact without cites. (E.g. "Beginning in the mid-1920s, a Repin cult was established in the Soviet Union and he was held up as a model "progressive" and "realist" to be imitated by "Socialist Realist" artists in the USSR." "The Tsar paid 35,000 rubles for the painting, the largest amount ever paid for a Russian painting to that time." "He was invited by Lenin to come back to Russia but refused the invitation giving the excuse that he was too old to make the journey.") Please add good cites throughout this article as necessary. -- 201.50.251.197 22:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

    To my anonymous critic: Thank you for these three examples of infelicitous statements. I have checked some of my sources and changed and refined the statements somewhat. As it now stands, I do not think that the article goes beyond what the scholarly literature has to say about Repin. For example, there is a whole chapter in Valkenier about Repin and early Socialist Realism. The word "cult", however, is my own, but I think that it pretty much falls into the category of the obvious to anyone acquainted in the least with Soviet publications on art and on Repin in particular. Thus, it requires no source citation. On the 35,000 ruble value of the Zaporozhians, see A.Davydova, Zaporozhtsy kartina Repina (1962) or the memoir of Repin's close friend, Dmytro Yavornytsky, "Kak sozdavalas kartina Zaporozhtsy" in Khudozhestvennoe nasledstvo: Repin (M 1949), II, 80. I am sorry that I cannot find anything on this in English. As to the invitation to return home, see for example, the article by Yevhen Onatsky cited by me above.

    In my opinion, there is still a great deal of work to be done on the life and work of Repin, and we really need a good objective biography to replace the pioneering but very flawed, ideologically slanted works of Soviet times. (I suspect that even his published letters have been selected and edited with ideological purposes in mind.) I look forward to seeing new works on Repin published in Russia, Ukraine, and elsewhere. Once again, thank you for your discerning comments. Regards, Mike Stoyik 01:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)