Talk:Ilse Koch

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[edit] Nickname

"Buchenwälder Schlampe" does indeed translate as "Buchenwald Bitch/slut" but it seems to appear only in non-German texts (at least on Google), raising the suspicion that it is simply a translation back into German of the liberal and alliterative translation of Hexe to Bitch rather than Witch. I propose that the phrase "Buchenwälder Schlampe" be quarantined to the talk page unless someone can find evidence of its use in German. Fine to leave "bitch" in English (or Polish if that's an accurate translation of what she was called by Polish inmates. Coughinink 03:22, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

As to her nick-name, I'm absolutely sure that the correct term was "The Bitch of Buchenwald", not the "Witch of Buchenwald". At least the Polish inmates report the "Suka z Buchenwaldu" name. Halibutt 15:21, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

If I may add, I wonder if "Bitch of Buchenwald" is even accurate, because "Schlampe" does *not* mean "bitch", it means "whore" or "slut". I saw another woman Nazi named the "Bitch of xyz" in another article on Wikipedia. Is this even necessary to include? After all, the people in the camp didn't speak english. I'm tempted to just edit this out since it doesn't add much to the article. Dailycyclist 01:14, 14 June 2007 (UTC)Dailycyclist

It was never proofed that she had possessed lampshades from human skin or that the family dinner table was decorated with shrunken human heads. She was not convicted for those things. She was only convicted for his sadism against prinsoners. --217.247.10.83 09:45, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

How in the hell is this academic? Human lampshades, please. Give me a break. Im not a Nazi but THAT is just stupid.

Where does the article claim that? Well, the "shrunken head" dinner table decoration might be a silly claim as well.
There were pictures taken of the lampshades, I've seen them. I think the book was the 14 most evil people in history or something like that.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.81.93.202 (talk) 13:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

Furthermore, Koch did not walk out of the camp as you claim, but was arrested with her husband in 1943 for imbezzlement, this indeed ended her tenure there.

[edit] Motivations?

What frustrates me about articles like this is that we never really gain any insight into the minds of these "monsters." Why was Ilsa so sadistic when other people are revulsed by her actions? Was it her upbringing, her mental state or some other reason? Surely some psychological research was undertaken if she lived into the 1960s.

I mean, I am aware of Stanley Milgram's work but has there been a look at individual Nazis to understand why certain individuals were so fanatical that they wanted to genocide a whole race? It would help our understanding to prevent this type of thing happening again.

[edit] Photograph Content

Are we sure that the photograph is really of "Collection of prisoners' tattoos "? These definitely appear to be anatomical samples but most of them look more like organs of some sort than skin samples; the one at center-left appears to be a kidney, the one at top-center appears to be a heart. The others may be possibly be a lung, liver, intestines, etc. I really don't see anything that appears to be a skin sample with a tatoo on it. A similar photograph in one of the articles linked at the article's end simply states "human remains" with a purported lampshade with human skin (no tatoos). Is there a reliable caption we can reference? - JoeConsumer 05/09/06

I is certain of a thing, it is that the photograph is a true photograph taken the day of the release of the camp It is my father-in-law who took this photograph, it was this day there there. It does not make any propaganda and forever published this series of photographs which was in a drawer (it is me which found that very useful for Wikipédia). It made bets 16th Belgian battalion of Fusiliers between on March 13 and on May 7, 1945. The American army had prohibited the catch of photograph. But anyway made him a series of photographs. My father-in-law is still in life and me claims that it is many tatoo human. But its memories and its health are not any more exellent. Afflicted this text is translated into English with tools automatic --Luc Viatour 09:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


Like much - most - all - of the Nazi atrocities, when original material ever is tested it turns out to be more legend than fact. The US general who commuted her life sentence to 4 years stated that there was never any lampshade or other evidence every even mentioned at any trial. Her second trial was demanded by political pressure, not evidence. She probably was not a nice lady though -

The court apparently concluded that the lampshade in question was goat skin, and that an overzealous / sensationalist reporter started the story that it was made from human skin. Media hype has been around for as long as the media have. There is no need to exaggerate or diminish the scale of what happened; the truth will suffice.
Occam's Razor clearly applies here. The simplest explanation is that the lamp was simply there to illuminate the collection on display.
Zuiram 16:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


"the truth will suffice" - I don't think we should go that far. If we only use the truth, well the story about Ilse will either be very short or very sympathetic. Even mentioning her husband ( hung by the Nazis for corruption ) might show that the Nazis wouldn't stand for maltreatment of prisoners,etc. We are backed into a corner - anyway to just delete the whole article?( someone might read it 100 years from now and wonder how off the beam we were)159.105.80.63 18:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Proof.

http://www.fatherryan.org/holocaust/buchen/Ilsekoch.htm

http://www.justiceatdachau.com/bio.htm

--Homer slips. 02:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Great sites!--Nikki Fagin 18:00, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Shame on the people who employ shoddy scholarship and repeat unverified stories. Please read the Straight Dope's excellent research on the topic of "lampshades". (Also, you might want to use your critical thinking skills and not just believe every tall tale automatically - why would someone who hates Jews want a lampshade made of the skin of a person they find despicable and "defile" their house with it?) Just because someone writes something, doesn't make it true, and unlike the Holocaust itself, there's not one shred of solid evidence for this bizarre claim.

[edit] Human-skin lampshade

The memoria´s museum had one on display in 1980. It was not made of patches of skin, as one might expect, but it was woven of narrow stripes of what looked like white, untattooed skin. If this was a fake, it was a good one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.50.119.52 (talk) 10:17:12, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

I beg to differ. In the early 1970's I worked declassifying WWII in the national records center of the National Archives in the US. There we came up the Koch file which included lampshades and other items that appeared to be made of human body parts. I am not a forensic specialist, but I saw what I saw and touched what I touched. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eric111 (talk • contribs) 06:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] letter to her son?

The German version of this article on de.wikipedia claims her only son, Artwin, committed suicide at a very young age. So how did she write a letter to him before she took her own life in 1967? --67.149.150.252 (talk) 05:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)