Talk:Ignjat Đurđević
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[edit] Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was Move. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC) Ignazio Giorgi - Ignjat Đurđević → Ignjat Đurđević – The person has only one name, not both simultaneously. Different language versions of the name should all be listed in the introduction of the article in accordance with Wikipedia:Proper names policy.
Comment (as nom): the suggested name is the original name of the article. Its current dual name has been assigned to it on August 6 2006. See history of the article for more details [1] RedZebra 11:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
- Support as nominator. RedZebra 09:25, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support --Dijxtra 11:42, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose, although I would support a move to Ignazio Giorgi. Titles should use the latin alphabet whenever possible. Kafziel 16:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- 1. Đ and Ž are letters of latin alphabet, as you can see from their articles on Wikipedia. 2. Ignazio Giorgi isn't English, it's Italian. Therefore, Ignazio Giorgi and Ignjat Đurđević are both in latin alphabet and both are not in English. --Dijxtra 16:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- There's not really any point in splitting hairs; Italian names are acceptable, but the use of diacritics is disputed and as the guideline stands right now they are not recommended. I didn't write it, but I support it. If a letter isn't found on a standard QWERTY keyboard, it makes it that much less likely for a title to be found without a redirect. Since there's another option, it should be used. Kafziel 17:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- There's a Italian name for every island on List of inhabited islands of Croatia, but we still keep the names with diacritics. You might want to take into account that this article was named "Ignjat Đurđević" before User:Giovanni_Giove turned up, and you might want to check his move log. --Dijxtra 17:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- I notice you didn't post a google test for this one. Could it be because Google shows about 800 results for Ignjat Đurđević and over 5,300 for Ignazio Giorgi? Kafziel 17:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- It would seem that the Google search also includes the results for the 19th century Giorgio Orsini [2] RedZebra 17:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, the shortcomings of the Google test made plain. My objection to diacritics stands. Kafziel 17:29, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I didn't google test this one because there's no way to pinpoint the right Ignazio Giorgi and I never intended to fight your decission, just to make you aware of some observations of mine. Your point is valid, and I can't do anything (civil and constructive) about that. But, I also am free to consider move to Ignazio Giorgi an encouragement of what I consider to be nationalist disruption in form of moving article without even trying to create consensus (which is how we got to the current name). --Dijxtra 18:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with you there, and if it's a matter of nationalistic accuracy, I would also support a move to Ignjat Durdevic (without the diacritics). Kafziel 18:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, that would be the worst solution since it would contradict every single entry in Category:Croatian_people :-) They all have diacritics there... It's a unofficial rule in ex-Yu comunities on Wikipedia to use diacritics... You entered a can of worms, I'm afraid, my friend... --Dijxtra 18:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- I can see that. :) Kafziel 18:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, that would be the worst solution since it would contradict every single entry in Category:Croatian_people :-) They all have diacritics there... It's a unofficial rule in ex-Yu comunities on Wikipedia to use diacritics... You entered a can of worms, I'm afraid, my friend... --Dijxtra 18:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with you there, and if it's a matter of nationalistic accuracy, I would also support a move to Ignjat Durdevic (without the diacritics). Kafziel 18:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I didn't google test this one because there's no way to pinpoint the right Ignazio Giorgi and I never intended to fight your decission, just to make you aware of some observations of mine. Your point is valid, and I can't do anything (civil and constructive) about that. But, I also am free to consider move to Ignazio Giorgi an encouragement of what I consider to be nationalist disruption in form of moving article without even trying to create consensus (which is how we got to the current name). --Dijxtra 18:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, the shortcomings of the Google test made plain. My objection to diacritics stands. Kafziel 17:29, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- It would seem that the Google search also includes the results for the 19th century Giorgio Orsini [2] RedZebra 17:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- I notice you didn't post a google test for this one. Could it be because Google shows about 800 results for Ignjat Đurđević and over 5,300 for Ignazio Giorgi? Kafziel 17:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- There's a Italian name for every island on List of inhabited islands of Croatia, but we still keep the names with diacritics. You might want to take into account that this article was named "Ignjat Đurđević" before User:Giovanni_Giove turned up, and you might want to check his move log. --Dijxtra 17:12, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- There's not really any point in splitting hairs; Italian names are acceptable, but the use of diacritics is disputed and as the guideline stands right now they are not recommended. I didn't write it, but I support it. If a letter isn't found on a standard QWERTY keyboard, it makes it that much less likely for a title to be found without a redirect. Since there's another option, it should be used. Kafziel 17:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- 1. Đ and Ž are letters of latin alphabet, as you can see from their articles on Wikipedia. 2. Ignazio Giorgi isn't English, it's Italian. Therefore, Ignazio Giorgi and Ignjat Đurđević are both in latin alphabet and both are not in English. --Dijxtra 16:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support must go to one title or the other; seems far better known for his Croatian work, which indicates Croatian name more appropriate Aquilina 22:30, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support - AjaxSmack 06:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support, i.e. restore to whatever original name the article had, then rerun the RM if necessary. The double name in the title is totally inacceptable; make it one way or another, then investigate which one is more common. Duja 09:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support Duja's proposal; this is worse than either single name. Septentrionalis 21:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support as per Duja. Olessi 04:01, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support Move to Ignazio Giorgi avoid use of diacritics. --Will74205 18:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Google
The google tests above, in addition to other flaws, were not limited to English, and included Wikipedia itself. The first is more serious: it picks up all the Italian street addresses on Via Ignazio Giorgi. Fixing these, we have 7 for Ignazio Giorgi, and 13 for Ignjat Djurdjevic. Several, even of these, are false positives, and three show up in both. This may well be too small to be decisive; but for what it's worth.... Septentrionalis 03:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
