Talk:Ignatius of Loyola

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

be interested to see some more details about Ignatius early life. The life he lived as a soldier.

--Nickdap 10:30, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Nietzsche

After undergoing a profound conversion experience, discussed below, he became a stellar example of the kind of great-spirited person that Friedrich Nietzsche later envisioned as an Ubermensch.

Did Nietzsche mention Loyola explicitly ? If not, this should be removed, as mere speculation.

[edit] Citations Needed

This page was drawn to my attention recently. Kudos on the work done to provide a helpful Wiki article. It does need to be carefully sourced and cited. For instance, refer to Martin Luther as an example of a article that has been continuously sourced and cited in response to requests for this kind of thing. It has resulted in a stronger article. Thanks. Ptmccain 22:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metro statio

I think it's fun that a Metro station is named after him, but wouldn't it be more important to mention that the great Jesuit church of St. Ignazio in Rome is named after him? Dunnhaupt 18:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nov 9 Reverts

I just reverted Edgar181's changes to this page. He had reverted a previous edit that was in fact constructive.

Comments?

Chad 21:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anima Christi

I removed the Anima Christi from the infobox. It was not written by Ignatius[1]. That is a common misconception. See Anima Christi for more information. Chad 23:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

How about the Prayer for Generosity? Uthanc 10:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I like that one better. Add it! Eclectek C T 16:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Rating

Moved up to B-Class. I would suggest using in-text citations of your references, and ask someone less familiar to come in and look the article over for POV issues. -- Pastordavid 19:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ratings!

The founder of the Jesuits appears as the current example of a Saint of "mid imporatnce" on the "importance rating scale". Who does these ratings?

--Amandajm 00:29, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genealogy

  • Proposed by Ingo11 as new section
  • Removed from the main page by Pastordavid.
  • Put in the talk page for further discussion.

IMHO, it is worth inserting as a separated page but references & sources are missing. Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 22:09, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It's taken from : Villoslada, Ricardo García "San Ignacio de Loyola. Nueva biografía", Editorial BAC, Madrid 1.st ed. 1986, 1066 p. Ingo11 (talk) 23:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! Do you have the ISBN code? Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 18:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
ISBN 8422012677 or ISBN 9788422012672 for original Spanish edition. I know Italian translation: Sant’Ignazio di Loyola, San Paulo Milano 7ed. 1997, 1206p. ISBN 8821520048 Ingo11 (talk) 19:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


This is a draft used for proposing changes to the the article on Ignatius of Loyola.

Some rules:

  • Place this message at the top of all drafts by using {{draft}}. If a draft becomes inactive, replace this message with {{olddraft}}.
  • Do not write drafts as subpages in the main namespace, but do so in the talk namespace. Only import them into the main namespace when they are finished.
  • Do not put these into main categories, but comment these out at the bottom, likewise.
  • If you need to discuss this draft, please do so at talk:Ignatius of Loyola/talk.
 
Lope de Oñaz (~1180)
  ├ García López de Oñaz (~1221)
     ├ López García de Oñaz
        wife: Inés, dame of Loyola – unit of families (~1261)
         ├ daugther: Inés de Oñaz y Loyola (~end of XIII c.)
            husband: Juan Pérez (related)
            ├  Jaun (Basque - Lord) Juan Pérez
            ├  Gil López de Oñaz
            ├  other 5 brothers (see – battle of Beotibar)
                 Beltrán Yáñez (vel Ibáñez) de Loyola, son of Jaun Juan (+1405)
                 wife: Ochanda Martínez de Leete from Azpeitia 
                     ├ Sancha Ibáñez de Loyola
                     |  husband: Lope García de Lazcano
                     |  married: 4 III 1413
                     ├ heir: Juan Pérez de Loyola (d. childless, heirdom for Sancha)
                     ├ Maria Beltranche
                     ├ Elvira
                     ├ Emilia
                     ├ Juanecha
                              Juan Pérez de Loyola, son of Sancha Ibáñez (+ in Tolosa)
                              wife: Sancha Pérez de Iraeta (+1473)
                                 ├ Don Beltrán Yáñez (vel Ibáñez) de Oñaz y Loyola (+ 23 X 1507)
                                   Doña Marina Sáenz (vel Sánchez) de Licona (+ < 6 V 1508)
                                   married: 13 VII 1467 r.
                13 children:
1. Juan Pérez de Loyola (+1503 in Naples)
2. heir – Don Martín García de Oñaz y Loyola (1477 – 29 XI 1538)
              wife: Magdalena de Araoz 
              married: 11 IX 1498
    * – order uncertain
*. Ochoa Pérez de Loyola
*. Juan Beltrán de Loyola
*. Beltrán de Loyola (+ < 14 XI 1527)
*. Hernando de Loyola (+ in Panama, New World)
*. Pero López de Oñaz y Loyola (priest, + < VII 1529 in Barcelona)
*. Juaniza (vel Joaneiza) de Loyola, wife of Juan Marínez de Alzaga, notary from Azpeitia
*. Magdalena de Loyola, wife of Juan López de Gallaiztegui, notary from Anzuola
*. Sancha Ibáñez de Loyola
*. Petronila de Loyola, wife of Pedro Ochoa de Arriola
*. Maria Beltrán de Loyola, wife of Domingo de Arruado
13. Iñigo López de Loyola (< 23 X 1491 – 31 VII 1556)

[edit] Controversy about the Date of birth

Although the "official" date of birth of St Ignatius is Dec. 24 1491, there are been controversies about the date of birth of St Ignatius.[2]

  • Most authorities agree that it was in 1491. The Baptismal records of the parish of Azpeitia only began in 1537.
French wikipedia states "According to the Autobiography, this date would be 1495. But if one believes his nurse questioned by the investigators of the Company after his death, it is indeed 1491. This correctnes of this date is confirmed by the fact that he signs in 1507 the acts after the death of his father - the legal limit of signature being fixed at 16 years. - Lacouture T1 p. 15."
  • Dec 24 is also under discussion. Some researchers proposed the date of October 23 (see discussion on Genealogy and Wikipedia Polish).

I could'nt find references on this. Is it worth incorporating this controversy in the article? If yes, how? Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 10:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

In a fundamental opera: Monumenta Historica Societatis Iesu (t.1 Fontes Narrativi de Sancto Ignatio, Rome 1943 (sic!) p. 14*-24*) Pedro Leturia argue that Ignatius was born before October 23, 1491. Compare also: Pedro de Leturia, S.I., Estudios Ignacianos t.1 Estudios biograficos, Instit. Hist. S. I., Rome 1957, p. 55-68.
How does it come to this conclusion?
Do you have ISBN codes? Thanks Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 18:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
They have not ISBN, I suppose.
Has been found an authenticated deed from Azpeitia, dated 23 October 1505, with witness of Inego de Loyola. Requirement for this role was done 14 years, under Spanish and Guipúzcoa low, that’s to say Ignatius was born before October, 23 1491. Ingo11 (talk) 19:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
From this times it is indisputable that date berth, December, 24, is false. Lack however more precise details about birthday.Ingo11 (talk) 15:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I found an interesting discussion in Google Books. Have a look at Idígoras Tellechea, José Ignacio (1994). Ignatius of Loyola: The Pilgrim Saint. Chicago: Loyola University Press, 45. ISBN 0829407790.  Do we incorporate this information to the main page? Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 18:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How Iñigo was transformed into Ignacio?

See articles
VERD, Gabriel María, SI, El "Ínigo" de San Ignacio de Loyola , Archivum historicum Societatis Iesu, 45 (1976) p.95-128
VERD, Gabriel María, SJ, De Inigo a Ignacio. El cambio de nombre en San Ignacio de Loyola , Archivum historicum Societatis Iesu, 60 (1991) p.113-160
From the summary: "That St. Ignatius of Loyola's name was changed is a known fact, but it cannot be said that it is widely known in the historiography of the saint - neither the characteristics of the names Iñigo and Ignacio nor the reasons for the change. It is first necessary to make clear the meaning of the names; they are distinct, despite the persistently held opinion in onomastic dictionaries and popular thought. In Spain Ignacio and Iñigo are at times used interchangeably just as if they were Jacobo and Jaime. With reference to the name Iñigo, it is fitting to give some essential notions to eliminate ambiguities and help understand what follows. This name first appears on the Ascoli brome (dated 18 November 90 B.C.), in a list of Spanish knights belonging to a Turma salluitana or Saragossan. It speaks of Elandus Enneces f[ilius], and according to Menéndez Pidal the final «s» is the «z» of Spanish patronymics, and could be nothing other than Elando Iñiguez. It is an ancestral Hispanic name. Ignacio, on the other hand, is a Latin name. In classical Latin there is Egnatius with an initial E. It appears only twice with an initial I (Ignatius) in the sixty volumes of the Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum. This late Latin and Greek form prevailed. In the classical period Egnatius was used as a nomen (gentilitial name) and not as a praenomen (first name) or cognomen (surname), except in very rare cases. The author describes the change under three headings: names, facts, and reasons. The most important conclusion, perhaps unexpected, but not unknown, is that St. Ignatius did not change his name. That is to say, he did not intend to change it. What he did was to adopt for France and Italy a name which he believed was a simple variant of his own, and which was more acceptable among foreigners. That Ignacio ended up replacing Iñigo does not change his intention. If he had remained in Spain, he would have, without doubt, remained Iñigo." --Ingo11 (talk) 13:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Date of birth!

Which is it: "before October 23" (main text) - or "December 24th" (th data below the portrait)?

It's not the first time I've seen such a discrepancy in Wikipedia, BTW, and it's darn irritating.

[edit] Cheeeeese

Can I just ask why on the page itself it says that Ignatius was leader of the Jesuits". who invented Cheeeese", and why it doesn't appear on the text to be edited (and so can not be removed)?--DaviMurph (talk) 21:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)