Talk:Igbo people

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[edit] Discussion on naming

please write IGBO as from now on, instead of IBO. IBO is something else, it is actually the humorous abbreviation of i-before-others, and not the name of a tribe and nation in the biafran region of west-africa. (Anonymous contribution from a passer-by, User:217.231.52.19)

The standard in English is "Ibo." The standard English for Français is "French." Sensible Wikipedians won't be misled into trendy and fatuous novelties to mollify culturally immature bullying. --Wetman 19:24, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I believe the standard is now "Igbo". It's certainly what I see in books and magazines today. Also, I just finished Karl Maier's "This House Has Fallen", and in it, an Ibo chief claims that there are two separate groups--Ibo is much smaller, and Igbo the dominant one. He claimed the languages were not mutually intelligible. Alexisr 18:45, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Then, as regards this article, "right heading, wrong text" is it? --Wetman 19:12, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

IBO is also an abbreviation to refer to the International Baccalaureate Organisation. --Zippanova 06:32, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Even if "Igbo" is now standard in English, the article should certainly mention "Ibo" as well. Anyone reading a contemporary account of the Biafra war is going to encounter "Ibo", and they should know that it is the same people. I am going to edit accordingly. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:43, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Igbo...ibo...who cares..I m Igbo and I dont even know the difference....its just a matter of pronounciation if you ask me......problem here is that there is soo much more to igbo culture that is not mentioned and I would edit if I didnt have an exam tmr. a plus...k'odi mgbe ozo

===>My two cents I've spoken with several Nigerians, and I always ask if they are Igbo. When responding, they all (four or five) pronounced it "Ibo". They also all wished that Biafra was independent. Justin (koavf) 06:13, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

This might just be due to the fact that your native language doesn't contain the voiced labio-velar stop [gb]. Part of the reason for the ongoing confusion is that non-Igbo readers assume that the 'gb' should be pronounced as one would pronounce it in English. In fact, it is a co-articulated sound, and the difference between [b] and [gb] is quite difficult to hear for speakers of languages which do not have this same phonemic contrast. This is the reason why English people started writing Ibo in the first place, of course. — mark ✎ 19:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a paragraph within the article explaining this would be appropriate? Wyote2 13:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Currently, the first line of this article reads: "The Ibo, sometimes (especially formerly) referred to as Ibo, are one of the largest..." Certainly this is a typo or a case of vandalism and the actual sentence should be: "The Igbo, sometimes (especially formerly) referred to as Ibo, are one of the largest..." I am making the change. -Sarfa 18:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lost Tribes of Israel?

Cut from article: "It has been suggested that the Igbo the decendents of one of the Lost Tribes of Israel." Sometimes I get the feeling that has been suggested that everyone is descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel. However, this theory only belongs in the article if someone can cite evidence of it being upheld by someone with some credibility. E.g.: can someone provide a citation that the Igbo believe this about themselves, or that some prominent anthropologist believes this, etc. Even the Lost Ten Tribes article, which mentions a lot of putative descendants, does not mention the Igbo. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:39, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Similarly, cut again (not by me) this longer version of same, as a section under the title "Jewish Element of Igbo Ethnic Group":

There exists within Nigerian lore legends that state that a component, if not all of the Igbo ethnic group has either Jewish ancestry or came under Jewish influence about 1500 years ago. Currently, there is a growing segment Igbos who have either been practicing Judaism in part, or are returning to Judaism in whole. The Igbo (Ibo) Jews of Nigeria, sometimes addressed as “Yehudim Maghrebim” (West African Jews) are the Jewish component of the Igbo (Ibo) ethnic group whom are said to be descended from the southern and westward migrations of both ancient Semitic and later Jewish peoples from the Middle East into West Africa. There are currently 26 Synagogues in Nigeria 3 of which are also attended by Israelis either working or traveling in Nigeria. Two of the most well known Synagogues are the Gihon Hebrew Research Institute and the Beith Kenesseth Siyahh Yisrael in Abuja, Nigeria.

Similar material was also placed at African Jew. -- Jmabel | Talk July 1, 2005 06:32 (UTC)


can someone provide a citation that the Igbo believe this about themselves

This is one of the fact that establish the Igbo clan and their neigbours not as lost 10 tribes but as the Lost people described as Israel in the bible.

Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Isaiah 42:22 But this is a people robbed and plundered; All of them are snared in holes, And they are hidden in prison houses; They are for prey, and no one delivers; For plunder, and no one says, “Restore!”

David said: When The Lord will return the captive of zion, we were like those who dream. This is a prophecy about future Israel. Its a surprise package to them. The people described as Israel in the bible are not suppose to know their identity till end of days. That was the plan. They were made IGNORAMUS.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Has it ever occur to anybody that biblical Israel is not where it is currently located? The land described in my own version of bible(I dont know yours) confirms that Israel is located on a land flowing with milk and honey. This is definetely a Tropical rain forest not some desert where the land is barren and infertile.

Precisely, Igbos and their Niger-Delta neigbours are Reubenites, Gadites and Half of Manaseh.

The present Israel nation are Japhites not Shemites! They are the impostor Israelites. The bible clearly stated that Israel will be trodden down till the end time. Trodden means not in existence. Can the world read the line from the war in Middle East? Why do you think The Almighty has folded HIS hand towards HIS people since 58 years HE has reformed them? In Isaiah 42, it says they will come against king like mortas. Israel, palestine are the same fighting for name that is not theirs. In Isaiah it says "Woe to land beyond the rivers of Ehtiopia(Red Sea), that send ambassadors to a land destroy by waters". This is the prophecy about innvasion of the Arab, Jews on the original Israel. The land that was destroyed by flood later by gentiles is part of Africa. When will the world realise this?

Ethiopians can never be related to Israel. Ethiopians were/are sons of Ham. Israelites were sons of Shem. Though, Shemites -Israel was in the land of Ham for sometime but all of them moved out. I dont know if few stayed.

First, the original name can not be Israel according to bible and wikipedia. We have all been fooled!.

Jacob and Gideon were prominent Israelites that was renamed. Jacob = The one who contend/wrestle God. Gideon = The one who contend/wrestle with Ba. not ba-al::The ba.

Isra means Night journey in mediterranean not contend.

el ah isra :: The one who night journey with God.


According to Judge 6:26 or so, Yeru = contend. The name should be el -ah -Yeru::el = Article The, AH=God, Yeru=contend From left to right will be Yeruahel or The Yeruahs Gideon is el -ba -Yeru From left to right will be Yerubahel or The Yerubas.

Reading right to left is common in bible as in el ah Gabri::Gabriahel el -ah -Raph::Raphahel etc.

There is no way in all ramifications that anyone can proof to me that the present location of Israel is the one in the bible.

Now we know that Goshen is located somewhere in sudan, for goodness sake, what were they doing there? why would they passed the tip of the red sea and not the middle? If you say they passed through the middle of the sea, that is not possible because its about 300km wide which will take about 7 days for over 600 thousands people compare with 10hours journey in bible.

There has been established fact that there are Africans who are related to bible Israel. For long they denied. Can someone tell me how we have 2 blood in Israel whereas, bible Israel were forbidden to mix with other race?

Another thing, bible Jordan was before the main land of Israelites and is small compare to what we now have on the whitewashed map. According to Joshua 1, it was given to just 2.5 tribes:Reubenites, Gadites and half of Manaseh. The present Jordan is bigger than the whole Israel.

Jordan was also like Garden of The Lord. It was the best part of Israel land and even on earth (Ezekiel 20:6) Eden is not in existence biblically again. But now, our pervasive historians says, Eden is in Iraq.

Is anyone out there reading the bible again or just listen to pastors?

Israel should be one of the best of all lands on earth not one of the poorest in a desert. Not a land that does not look fertile, not a land that was artificially enhanced.

The bible says "A land flowing with milk and honey" a metaphor for a fertile land just by look".

Entrance into Eden Gen 2:8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Exit from Eden Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Lost Forever Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Recreated:Future Reformation Prophecy of The Yerubas. Isaiah 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

IT IS HIGH TIME WE BEGIN TO WAKE UP FROM OUR DREAM WORLD IN THE REALITY WORLD OF TRUTH. ELSE YOU WILL HERE:

"I KNOW YOU NOT, DEPART FROM ME"

If you believe in the bible because you pray and you get answer, if that is the reason why you call yourself christian or a muslim then you are in a deep shit of problem. If you are christian because you think my father was a christian and believe as i do as well as my great grand father as well as Benny Hin, Billy Graham, Keneth Copeland, just because you see them laying hands on people and they get heal and you see demon -stration. You aint serious! You are a kid.

Rememeber the words of the savior. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Mat 7:23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.'

—This unsigned comment was added by 196.1.178.84 (talk • contribs) 27 March 2006.

Hmm.... I doubt it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.70.32.109 (talk • contribs) 30 August 2006.

[edit] Philip Emeagwali

Considering the Wiki article on Philip Emeagwali, I am not sure he should be listed as an important I(g)bo... (user:ErichMaraite 15 July 2005)

[edit] Still a problematic article

  • The claim of 38% of the population in the lead paragraph does not jibe at all with the claim of 35 million in a population of 150 million, below.
  • There is still no citation on the restored claim about possibly being Jews.
  • And I wonder if that uncited claim about Igbos being Jews goes hand in hand with the uncited claims about them being "known to control African commerce… live all over the world and are among the world's leading intellectuals." Is this cited from somewhere plausible, or do we just have an African variant of a claim of the Great International Jewish Conspiracy? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:06, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
  • In this situation I am not sure who added the additional material. The best bet may be to strike that statement "known to control African commerce… live all over the world and are among the world's leading intellectuals."
    It does have the ring of an agenda to. There are Igbos who are a part of commerce, just like anyone else, but controlling it.....no way. I don't know of any Igbos who make such a claim in such a broad way. Igbos are a part of the world wide picture, and it is as simple as that. Without any citations it may be better to just cut down the size of the article to the information that is verifiable.--EhavEliyahu 19:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Percentage of the population: I have changed the article to reflect the 15% cited in Demographics of Nigeria, if we're going to be wrong, let's be consistently wrong, I figure.  :-p
    Allegations about Igbo controlling African commerce, etc. has been removed, not just because it's unsourced, but because it's demonstrably untrue.
    99.99% of the population of ... I have changed this unsourced text to something a bit less ridiculous.
    Claims of being Jews is something I'll let Ehav Eliyahu defend, as I'd end up having to cite him as a source anyways were I to try to defend it myself... Tomer TALK 00:14, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
  • In terms of the Jewish mention, it may be better to re-word it to something a segment of the Igbo population are believed to be Jews, and then just have a link to the African Jews article. That way it is not overkill since the article seems more on the social/political element of the Igbo ethnic group, which has a different group of concerns attached to it. Just my two cents. --EhavEliyahu 13:15, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Please feel free. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:00, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 35 million Igbo??

The 35 million number is incredibly suspicious. I've always heard of the Igbo as the third largest Nigerian ethnic group, behind both the Hausa and the Yoruba. This is backed up by the CIA World Fact Book, which gives us 29% Hausa/Fulani, 21% Yoruba, and 18% Igbo. Ethnologue gives 18.5 million Hausa, 18 million Igbo, and 19 million Yoruba. Columbia Encyclopedia numbers them at 15 million. Britannica about 20 million. I'm going to remove all the material about numbers, and change the Igbo language article back to saying 18 million Igbo, which seems close enough to the others that give actual numbers. john k 07:40, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the 35 Million number comes from Igbos who are counting Igbos outside of Nigeria, and possibly even African Americans and Haitians. I do know of a number of Africans from the East Coast who descend from areas where it was known that Igbos were brought during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, and there are some Haitians who have also expressed an Igbo descent. More than likely these are the reasons you hear these high numbers in terms of Igbo populations. --EhavEliyahu 22:02, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Somebody also changed the numbers on Igbo language to 35 million - there are certainly nowhere near 35 million speakers of the Igbo language. Beyond this, it seems absurd to count people in the African Diaspora in the new world as members of any specific African ethnicity. I don't know what the rationale for that change was, but it was clearly made by someone who is engaging in Igbo nationalist apologetics, and it doesn't belong in the article. john k 00:55, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that it doesn't make sense to inflate the number to 35 million. Just a little insight into what I have found in Igbo culture. The reason why those in the diaspora are counted is because there are some known areas on the East Coast where Igbos who were taken into bondage during the Atlantic slave trade were taken. I think they are called Geeches and Gullahs. In Haiti there is at least one ethnic group, which traces itself back to Igbos in Nigeria. So most Igbos have a strong sense of connectedness to other Igbos, the Diaspora is counted in their society, even if there is exact proof for it.--EhavEliyahu 22:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
Yes. Well. The article now says "c. 45 million", so you've been outbid. Can someone please find something citable? - Jmabel | Talk 05:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
This is not only un-believable but inconsistent with the rest of the article, which says 17% of the Nigerian population. That gives 22 million. Adding a few for Igbos living in Cameroon, etc, gives a more reasonable estimate of ~25 million. Citation still needed though. Deuar 09:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Igbo vs. Ibo, redux

The lead now says "erroneously referred to as Ibo". I believe this is wrong. The spelling Ibo is not "erroneous", it's merely falling out of favor. At the time of the Biafra war, it would have been considered the correct spelling in English, without a doubt. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:22, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I've changed it. The "erroneously" bit is too prescriptive rather than descriptive. Until the articles on Haman, Hitler, and Stalin characterize those men as wicked, evil, and accursèd, "erroneously" is unacceptable in this article. TShilo12 07:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

err...actually ibo is wrong.its igbo,its 1 of those things we igbos get ratha stressed bout when we c it in d dictionary.--Adaobi 04:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] An overview

Just found this at the disambig page--no references, so far as I can see, so somebody should check it before it's merged.

--Dvyost 04:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Igbos "An Overview"

Igbo or Ibo, major ethnic group living mainly in south-east Nigeria. The word is pronounced “eebo”, with a bilabial consonant not used in English that has a “g” and a “b” sound in it in place of the “b” sound. Ibo is an older spelling. No one knows for certain how many Igbo—or Nigerians—there are. They are certainly one of Nigeria’s largest ethno-linguistic groups (along with the Yoruba and the Hausa people).

Igbo, a Niger-Congo language with around 35 million speakers, has many dialects, some of which are barely mutually intelligible. However, Igbo speakers from different areas can usually communicate with each other, tending to adapt their speech to one of several central forms. Igbo is a tonal language like Chinese, which means that the meaning of certain homographs (words that are spelt alike) is distinguished by pitch.

Igbo is distantly related to the languages of neighbouring peoples; this indicates that the Igbo have been in much their present home in south-eastern Nigeria for a very long period. Evidence of ancient settlements, stone tools, and pottery dates from several thousand years ago. Most Igbo lived between the lower Niger River and the Cross River though a substantial minority lived west of the Niger. Many now live in other parts of Nigeria or abroad, in Britain, North America, or other African countries, especially South Africa. This is sometimes called the Igbo diaspora and began in the era of the slave trade.

In modern times, Igbos have emigrated in search of educational and work opportunities. Traditionally, the Igbos lived in small villages. Not all were equal however; slaves had no civil rights and women had less power than men. Men of roughly the same age formed an age grade, to which they belonged through life, unless demoted—a great disgrace. Older men controlled the affairs of the community, and decisions were taken by consensus, after long debates. There was a system of titles, which were not inherited, but achieved by an individual’s own efforts.

The western Igbo lived in towns, but the majority, east of the Niger, lived in village groups—settlements that were geographically dispersed but united by a tradition of a single founding ancestor. There were hundreds of these village groups. In their turn, village groups were part of a larger unit, sometimes called a clan. What linked the members of a clan, village group, or village, was a tradition of descent from the same ancestor. For example, the members of the Umueri (Children of Eri) clan believe they are descended from an ancestor called Eri. One of his sons was Nri, the founder of the Umunri village group. Other sons founded different groups.

Another way in which communities were linked was through a network of regional oracles. The best known was Chukwu Obasi (means “god the creator”). The Igbo people were long-distance traders; during their travels they would come across cases of disputes or accusations and would bring clients back to the oracle. The reputation of these oracles depended on the justice of their judgements.

The Igbo have a long history of cultural achievement. Traditionally, the Igbo have excelled at metalwork, weaving, and woodcarving. Excavations at the village of Igbo Ukwu have unearthed sophisticated cast bronze artifacts and textiles dating from the 9th century. Since ancient times the Igbo have traded craft goods and agricultural products. Traditional Igbo religion varied regionally, but generally included a belief in an afterlife and reincarnation, sacrifice, and spirit and ancestor worship. The Igbo performed elaborate ceremonies marking funerals and other life passages. Yam was the most important crop and staple food for the Igbo and they still hold an annual yam festival to celebrate the harvest and the beginning of the new farming year.

In the late 19th century the British gradually extended their rule over what became Nigeria. It was a British colony until 1960. Nigeria became independent with a federal constitution, with three (later four) regions, each dominated by a large ethnic group (the Igbo were a majority in the Eastern Region). The secession of the Eastern Region from the Federal Republic of Nigeria led to the Nigerian civil war (see Biafran War) of 1967-1970. While ethnic tensions remain, the Igbo are again integrated into Nigerian society. Several of Nigeria’s leading writers are Igbo, including Chinua Achebe, Cyprian Ekwensi, and Nkem Nwankwo. Nigeria’s first president, Nnamdi Azikiwe, was Igbo.

--Engr. Ezurukam Emmanuel 20:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Igbo origins

Please stop reverting the Igbo people article. The view that the Igbo are descended from the ancient Hebrews has been sourced, and your edits are removing that source. Unless you can provide proof of more historians who support Nat Okafor-Ogbaji's theory, it needs to be made clear that his is a minority viewpoint. — BrianSmithson 12:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

As you have asked me to stop reverting the Igbo people page, I will ask you the same. Please stop reverting the page. How can my edits be removing the source, when I was the one who sourced the edit?
While I am fully aware and fully accept that Nat Okafor-Ogbaji's viewpoint, at present, is in the minority in terms of mainstream thought, this does not make him a "controversial" historian. You may be partial and in doubt towards said historians theory, however, this is not evidence enough to qualify Okafor-Ogbaji as "controversial". The whole point of my source, is that viewers can use the link, read the text in its entirety and decide for themselves whether he is credibe/"controversial".
Also, whether the fact that the Igbos are descendants of the ancient Hebrews is true or indeed a fallacy, this does not change the fact that Eri, Arodi, and Areli ARE the sons of Gad. So while I accept that it would be slightly biased or partial to refer to them as "great explorers", they are brothers and sons of Gad never the less. This is not just the case, "according to Nat Okafor-Ogbaji", one only needs to open up a King James version Bible to verify this empirical fact (Gen 46:16).
Ike.Q 13:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
(Moving discussion back here so it is not fragmented.) I apologize for the second half of my edit (the part about Eri, Arodi, and Areli). You are correct that this should not need a qualifier. However, I must continue to insist that the views of Mr. Okafor-Ogbaji be qualified as being in the minority or as controversial. Even the link you provided to source the edits says that they are controversial; "Why did you embark on this controversial research?" is the very first question they ask him. The second link you have provided as more evidence does not work. Overall, my problem is that you are providing Mr. Okafor-Ogbaji's opinion as if it were the truth. But it is simply his opinion, and one that sounds very suspicious to me. — BrianSmithson 15:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
What other sources hold that the Ogbo are direct descendants of Gad other than Okafor-Ogbaji's comments or research? --Jcw69 16:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I must say that I'm usually quite good at finding sources for subjects like this, but I couldn't find any holding or even describing this view. Instead, I am dumping some references here to more widely accepted academic accounts of Igbo history, reliable sources, so to say. I'm sorry to say that I don't have the time at present to go deeper into this; I hope someone will be able to look up some of these books in a library and improve the article. Here are the references:

  • Ohadike, Don C. (1994) Anioma: a social history of the Wstern Igbo people. Athens, Ohio: Ohio University Press.
  • Afigbo, Adiele Eberechukwu (1992) Groundwork of Igbo history, Lagos: Vista Books.
  • Afigbo, Adiele Eberechukwu (1981) Ropes of sand: studies in Igbo history and culture. Ibadan: Ibadan University Press.
  • Afigbo, Adiele Eberechukwu (1980) 'Prolegomena to the study of the culture history of the Igbo-speaking peoples of Nigeria', in Swartz & Dumett (eds.) West African culture dynamics, pp. 305-325.
  • Isichei, Elizabeth Allo (1976) A history of the Igbo people. London: Macmillan.

— mark ✎ 19:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Again, I fully accept that Nat Okafor-Ogbaji's study does not pertain to the mainstream status quo, and in fact you have brought me to concede that it is a controversial study. However, this does not mean to say that Okafor-Ogbaji qualifies as a "controversial historian". Labelling him in this light unfairly implies that his complete body of work as a historian has been shrouded in controversy. There is a difference between a controversial person and the controversial subject matter. To label him a "conroversial historian", would be similar to labelling David Irving a "racist historian". -A great deal of people believe David Irving is a racist- this is fine, as long as they decide this of their own accord, not because their name is preceeded by a subjective label. The fact is that we will probably never know definatively whether the ancient Hebrews are the ancestors of the Igbos, much like the Jews living in Israel today cannot definatively trace their ancestry to the same origins. Controversial, it may be, however this is not a random theory, feebly peddled by one man. It is part of a study that holds a very sympathetic ear to many belonging to, and outside the Igbo people, though not necessarily textually. It should be noted that I am not taking Nat Okafor-Ogbaji's view/theory like they are the undisputed truth. My point has always been; please be impartial! Cheers. Ike.Q 18:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

You are correct. Hopefully, Mark's change to "controversial theory" will satisfy both sides. — BrianSmithson 18:36, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I still think readers should make up thier minds with thier own brains as to what constitues as controversial and what doesn't. They don't need to be told. Simply let them read the accompanying theory. I am satisfied that this is impartial and should remain, nevertheless. Ike.Q 19:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. It is not for nothing that this is a minority viewpoint, and minority viewpoints should be indicated as such to avoid creating the impression that what they hold is widely accepted. With the present state of the article, I even doubt the desirability of including Okafor-Ogbaji's views at all; what we really need is a common sense account of Igbo history here, backed up by reliable, academic sources like the ones I mentioned above. Ike Q, you say he is a historian. What are his academic qualifications?
You are talking about 'his body of work' — did he publish anyting in peer-reviewed journals? What else did he publish aside from these views? Which university in Igboland or abroad is he allied to, if any? Can you provide sources from which it is clear that he has a reasonable number of followers? If it follows from the answers to these important questions that this man is not notable, I see no reason to include his views. Wikipedia should only report, as a tertiary source, information from reliable secondary sources. — mark ✎ 19:16, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
To be even more specific, your statement that "this is not a random theory, feebly peddled by one man. It is part of a study that holds a very sympathetic ear to many belonging to, and outside the Igbo people, though not necessarily textually." calls for substantiation, i.e., if this is really the case, you should be able to provide evidence of it. — mark ✎ 19:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I am not here to defend Nat Okafor-Ogbaji (well actually, I am, but for the sake of impartiality and now, it seems accessibility and variant). Having said that, I do not particularly care about the details of Okafor-Ogbaji’s academic qualifications (obviously, unless proved bogus). Mark, you say I call him a historian. Actually, it was BrianSmithson who originally called him a historian, I just quoted him. Although, I should think his books automatically qualify him as a historian/researcher- amateur, professional academic or otherwise, this neither here nor there. All I know about the man is what is on the link I provided and the details of his book talked about on the website. Frankly, I find "What else did he publish aside from these views? Which university in Igboland or abroad is he allied to, if any", or even what he had for breakfast this morning, irrelevant. Okafor-Ogbaji’s theories are echoed by a great deal within the Igbo community [as I say, not necessarily textually] and many Igbos themselves support, and echo his views, is reason enough for the edit. Otherwise, why not remove the ‘African Jews’ from the ‘See also’ section, as well as ‘Judaism’ from the ‘Religion’ section? It’s all relative. Unless your definition of reliable academic sources, is a bunch of European Jewish Rabbis in Israel. Believe it or not, the history of the Igbo and indeed any other African tribe/ethnicity doesn’t centre around European colonialism: pre and post. The Igbo culture/history has a lot more depth and complexity than the currently edited “common sense account”.

The last line of what you quote of me is “though not necessarily textually”. So how do you propose I provide evidence of it, as “information from reliable secondary sources”? Do I invite you or any other administrator into Igbo communities? (though I imagine this far-fetched idea would not suffice, as it is likely you will not find many “peer-reviewed academic qualified historians”. [sic]

(last edit) Ike.Q 00:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I will ignore your off the mark accusation of Eurocentrism to sketch the problem once again for you. Virtually anyone can set up a website, interview someone, cook up a theory, or write a book. As Wikipedia is not a general knowledgebase, we cannot afford just adding all the ideas of all of these people; instead, we try to report what is notable. Wikipedia depends on reliable, secondary sources for its content in order to be and stay verifiable and trustworthy. I do not really care whether or not you consider the questions I posed about Nat Okafor-Ogbaji irrelevant; the point is that they are relevant in virtue of Wikipedia's policies on notabiliy, verifiability, and reliable sources.
If you re-read what I said above, you will see that I agree that the article in its present state does not suffice at all; and if you look somewhat further above, you will see that I actually listed a number of accounts of Igbo culture and history that are a lot less inspired by 'European colonialism, pre and post' as you seem to think. I am not interested in discussing a colonialist version of Igbo history, either here or in the article. I am just interested in having a superb article that does justice to the rich history of the Igbo people and is based on solid and reliable sources. — mark ✎ 14:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Given the unresolved discussion here, I have removed the claim along a similar vein at Arochukwu. - BanyanTree 20:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Note to whoever wrote this trash: No serious scholar or any layman interested in Africa and his history will subscribe to this nonsense. I've checked the identity page associated with this(and various other articles in this page) and it appears that the same person who posted this paragraphs also posts repeated untruths as well as constant dubious "corrections" and addendums. When will you realize that this your propaganda campaign does not help the Igbo cause? Not only are your efforts worthless as far as providing real education on a culture essentially invisible to western education but you also make fools of us with your phony "histories" which gives outsiders the false impression of us as ignorant halfwits who can't even imagine for ourselves a convincing history. Stop it!! Whoever you are. You do no favors by us and if we needed a spokesperson, we as a people would certainly be wise enough to employ someone far brighter than you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.162.83.207 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I assume you are referring to the theories of Okafor-Ogbaji here? Anyway, in the absence of a response I am going to move the stuff on the Hebrew origins of the Igbo out of the article to talk. They need to be verified by more than an interview. Not everything is automatically notable. — mark ✎ 19:58, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the text. I was unaware of WP:NPOV#Undue weight, but this seems like a textbook case of it. — BrianSmithson 22:30, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Thank you for doing that. — mark ✎ 16:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added new entry

Added entry for german-yugoslavian singer Ibo Bekirovic! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.50.227.3 (talk • contribs) 20 June 2006.

[edit] Igbo as Market-dominant minority

From Market-dominant minority: "Some of examples of market-dominant minorities mentioned by Chua ... Igbo in Nigeria" (= "middleman minority"). Anybody want to add a note on this to the article? -- 201.78.233.162 17:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I hope if they do they make some effort to explain Chua's case for calling them this. Simply saying Chua calls them that is not very informative. - Jmabel | Talk 22:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with IBO

There is no reason to have both Ibo and IBO. I don't know which should be the redirect. -Acjelen 06:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC). Nevermind this comment. It belongs on Talk:Ibo. -Acjelen 06:13, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing sentence in article

"By natural dynamism in a high density interaction that leads to orderliness, they evolved the Isu core belt." I have no idea what this could possibly mean. - Jmabel | Talk 05:54, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I think its something either from a sociological or anthropological context talking about the Isu area of Imo State, Nigeria which that article calls the heartland of the Igbo people. Most of the cities mentioned in the sentence before it are in that state, so this sentence is probably superfluous. Smmurphy(Talk) 20:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Then lets remove it, because it's pretty confusing. "natural dynamism in a high density interaction"? - Jmabel | Talk 00:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population again

We are back to a claim of 40 million. I doubt it. And there is no citation. - Jmabel | Talk 01:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Then down to 20 million and up to 43.6 million, all without citations. - Jmabel | Talk 01:14, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

In the hopes of finally putting an end to the constant, anonymous, unsourced changing of the population, I went looking for a source we can cite. Here's what I found:
  • "The Igbo as a nation now number over 20 million peope." Mushanga, Tibamanya mwene (2001). "Social and Political Aspects of Violence in Africa". Social Problems in Africa: New Visions. Praeger/Greenwood. P. 166.
  • "The Igbo people inhabit the large and fertile region of the lower Niger river and its adjoining territories. The current population is estimated at around 30 million people." Okpala, Benneth (2003). Toasting the Bride: Memoirs of Milestones to Manhood, 2nd ed. Trafford Publishing. P. 21.
  • "When closer attention is focused on the Igbo (population about 15 million), for example, there are phonic criteria determining whether a piece is Northern, Western, Eastern, Central, or Riverine Igbo." Meki Nzewi, quoted in Agawu, Kofi (2003). African Music: Postcolonial Notes, Queries, Positions. Routledge. P. 31.
  • "Igbo-speaking people are the third largest ethnic group in Nigeria, numbering approximately 20 million." Smith, David Jordan (2004). "Igbo". Encyclopedia of Sex and Gender: Men and Women in the World's Cultures. Volume I: Topics and Cultures A–K. Springer. P. 508.
  • "Igbo people now number about twenty-five million, a population larger than those of Norway, Sweden, and Denmark combined." Okafor, Clement (2004). "Igbo Cosmology and the Parameters of Individual Accomplishments in Things Fall Apart". Emerging Perspectives on Chinua Achebe. Volume 1: Omenka the Master Artist: Critical Perspectives on Achebe's Fiction. P. 86.
Of these, the chapter by Smith is the closest to an ethnography. At any rate, these should give us something to work with. — BrianSmithson 10:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Bit more: Britannica says 20 milliion. — BrianSmithson 13:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
My way of summarizing this information if I were writing outside of Wikipedia would be just to say "20 million" and then add a footnote with all of this. Some might call that "original research", though, so perhaps we should give a range even in the infobox. - Jmabel | Talk 17:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Done. — Brian (talk) 09:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Notable people'

It is my experience that lists of 'notable people' in articles like this attracted loads of unsourced edits of people who think "but s/he's notable too!" and then add the zillionth CEO, prelate, or critically acclaimed writer. This problem surfaced in Yoruba people too. After some unsuccessful attempts to prune the list and make it verifiable, I suggested a more rigorous approach at Talk:Yoruba_people#Notable_Yoruba_people: do away with the list in its entirety, and mention the most important and central figures in the body of the article, where they should be mentioned anyway in a comprehensive article. As I said there: no lists, because lists degenerate into popularity contests which are magnets for unverified and unnotable additions. Instead of the large and unwieldy list, a category like Category:Igbo people should suffice.

Therefore, I decided to be bold and I have pulled out the list (it can still be found in the history, of course). Any energy spent on improving the list would be better spent on researching and expanding the article anyway. We need more text here, not more Igbo CEO's. For those who want a list, I suggest starting and maintaining List of Igbo people. — mark ✎ 16:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religion section

It seems that some major changes occured to the religion section In February [1]. I think we'll have to pull that section, as well as some of the other historical sections back a little, but I'm not sure how exactly. If you think you can get it right, give it a shot. I'll try later if no one else does, but there oddities are mixed in pretty good, and I'm not sure what to throw out and what to leave. Smmurphy(Talk) 19:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Igbo today

In this section the sentence "This recovery, from the depths of the Biafran War, is an example of the uncanny resilience and resourcefulness of the Igbo." seems a little bit biased to me. It could also be an example of Igbos not suffering from lasting prejudice following the civil war (note that I'm not claiming either to be true or false). So I deleted the sentence.

I've also deleted the sentence "Igboland towns, such as Enugu, Onitsha and Owerri, lack sufficient resources and good infrastructure for their inhabitants." The same applies to any city in Nigeria, even Abuja, it's not a good example of discrimination against Igbos. If anyone can point out a city in Nigeria that has sufficient resources and good infrastructure (not just for a minority of the population as in Abuja) I'd love to visit!

Rewrote one sentence to avoid over-repetition of "today".

Orourkek 16:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 21:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 419 section

The section about the association of Igbo people with the 419 scams has caused controversy. Imbelieve (talk · contribs) is in favor of keeping it, while 193.120.171.211 (talk · contribs) is in favor of removing it. Please discuss this here so we can form consensus on the issue, and I will leave a message on the talk page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Nigeria. Picaroon (Talk) 20:42, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


I dont beleive most objectively and honestly that there is any ethnic group that would want the generality of it's people to be labelled with a particurlar crime or vice. This is a very simple logic.Besides the Igbo people section which border on ethno, socio-cultural history and civilization is largely unrelated to the 419 topic. It looks more like a deliberate attempt to cast hate aspersions on Igbo people. I insist it should be permanently deleted forthwith.

Well if you guys truly beleive that such damaging information which even the EFFC website does not prove, (as there are more Yoruba's listed on the EFCC wanted list) is normal, then perhaps the 419 section should also be included in the Yoruba people page, and perhaps all the ignorant stereotypes being peddled around by self hating Nigerians and Africans should be introduced in the sections of different ethnic groups.

Maybe we should start with failed banks: (corporate 419) which ethnic group was more responsible for the failed banks saga? Which ethnic group is more responsible for international trafficking of prostitutes? Which ethnic group is responsible for killing other Nigerians in the North at the slightest pretext, even for a cartoon published in faraway Denmark? Which ethnic group has dominated Nigeria's leadership and has been more responsible for the massive corruption in the police,armed forces, customs, federal civil service etc that has brough Nigeria to her knees? etc,etc.

Going by the rationale advertised here by the commentators, we should be petty enough to link these vices and more to the different ethnic groups in Nigeria, to a list that is bound to be endless? perhaps then you guys will be satisfied.

In conclusion, let me make it clear that unproven issues and stereotypes are attached to every ethnic in group Nigeria. We must be careful when we make conclusions or assumptions based on hypes or hearsay which cannot be supported by empirical data or evidence. For instance many Nigerians like to bandy the stereotype that Igbos dont go to school, probably because they see a lot of Igbos trading, but this is done out of ignorance as jamb statistics www.jambng.com has always placed the Igbo states ahead of other zones consistently for more than a decade. Again even the EFFC website list of wanted persons does not support the assumptions made here. Besides Nigeria is a nation where there is so much inter-ethnic hatred. The Ethnic groups are actively witch-hunting each other and looking for issues with which to tar other groups. We must avoid anything that will excarcebate such already existing frictions.

I therefore insist that articles on the various ethnic groups should concentrate on the social,cultural,and linguistic aspects of each group, without inviting any controversy by introducing spurious allegations. That is the only way Nigerian sites can remain enriching and free of rancour


By the way, any vice that exists in Nigeria should be seen as a social problem. The same way as something could be seen as Chinese or American. It is definitely too petty and primitive to try singling out ethnic groups within Nigeria to label with vices that exist on the average among all the ethnic groups.For example; there is hardly any crime or corruption that happens in Nigeria today that all ethnic groups are not involved in. 419 is a Nigerian crime that cuts across every ethnic group.Only someone bent on mischief will try to treat any of these crimes in isolation. If at all the topic must be used, then it should be on the Nigerian people section and not on the Igbo people section.



"that would want the generality of it's people to be labelled with a particurlar crime or vice." The Authenticity of an encyclopedia does not depend on hurting ones feelings, but on presenting cited information and providing counter information to backup or debunk them such as we are doing here on the talk page.

There are those who dispute the existence of Jesus and Prophet Mohammed, should we then delete all references to them, and burn all their documents, or should we logically and intelligently reject their claims by providing research, citations and point by point facts to convince them otherwise?

There are infact encyclopedic entries claiming that America has a poor health care system, and that the Chinese are responsible for a majority of the fake goods in America. In fact, some people claim that jews started all the wars. Those cultures do not blindly vandalize encyclopedia pages just because it broke their achy breaky hearts, nor does the ADL as controversial as it is, perfrom hit and runs on the offending encyclopedia because it broke their feelings? Insead they leave up such allegations and affix intelligent important riders which explain the origins of such beliefs and reasons why those beliefs are false. That my friend, is how to correct errors. In fact I do believe that Nigerians are mainly responsible for deleting information they do not like to hear, and Im a Nigerian myself.

Everytime you hear a report on CNN that a Nigerian has been involved in a scam, would you sue them? Or would you provide logical reasons for this such as socio-economic reasons/poverty/dire need or cite to prove otherwise.



The 419 problem is not only on the Igbo page, but also on the main Nigeria page. If the fbi says that Nigeria is responsible for a good portion of the majority of the 419 scam, to ignore this issue is illogical at best, Stark Madness at worst. Is it false? Maybe or maybe not, but it shall be addressed nonetheless. Furthermore, the number 419 itself refers to the article of the Nigerian Criminal Code (part of Chapter 38: "Obtaining Property by false pretences; Cheating") dealing with fraud. If this does not exist within Nigerian tribes, then it does not exist at all and that conclusion is beyond illogical.

The 419 association with Igbo people, although under different names dates back well before the 1967 Igbo war, and ignoring it will be akin to deleting an ingrained Nigerian history and popular culture which ALL Nigerians are WELL aware of regardless of willingness to address.



Your main concern is that "I dont beleive most objectively and honestly that there is any ethnic group that would want the generality of it's people to be labelled with a particurlar crime or vice."

the 419 section of the igbo article does not "label" anybody and is much LESS than even a STUB and highly neutral with NO labeling of any kind, Immediately after the begining of the section, there is a link to the main article, that makes ABSOLUTELY no blame on the Igbo people as a group, nor as individuals. On wikipedia, as with every other reliable source and news disperser, the citations are of the authors opinion and no not neccesarily reflect the views of its contributors. In fact, I believe the section blames ever ethnicity except Igbo.



For instance, please demonstrate how any of these encyclopedic entries minus the non liable citations are offensive enough for you to have vandalized it to such a point as to require locking the article that innocent people with goodwill could once conribute to in peace:

"A lot of Anti-Igbo sentiment in Nigeria stems from the popular conception in Nigeria that the Igbo people possess great business acumen." (are you offended yet?)


"This 'stereotype sometimes is associated with the growth of 419 monetary scams and identity thefts," (We all know that stereotypes are not the same as proven facts)


"...though these[scams] are often based out of neighbourhoods in traditionally Yoruba Lagos." (no blame on the igbo at all here and takes the Yorubas as a scapegoat)


"Allegations of Igbo specific money laundering is a subject of heated debate in Nigeria (heated on wikipedia as well from what we can see from this discussion) and remain officially unverified (Unverified, my friend lawrence, means that it is not an official statement but based on widespread beliefs among Nigerians).

The EFCC (Economic and Financial Crimes Commission) have sought to uproot this problem from both the Igbo and OTHER ETHNIC groups in Nigeria."


If that is not fair enough, the conclusion of that section stated: "However, a more concrete political explanation is the vestiges of Biafran independence sentiment still widely held to varying degrees among the Igbo." (that my friend is called sociologcal perspective which is needed when writing articles which some tribalists will take offense to)


citation of that section was:

1.CHUKS ILOEGBUNAM (an igbo journalist who is not afraid to address the issue and provide logical debunks, I wish he could contribute constructively to wikipedia as he has shown ability to factually argue with logic without involving emotional tribalistic schmaltzy)

2.Guardian Newspaper Nigeria

3.United states federal trade commision

How could anyone take offense to such sugar coated entries, unless it is in order to censor a news article of which a link is provided? Does one intend to oppose all that provides an immaculate impression?


Maintaining Section Credibility

Main article: Advance fee fraud

On several occasions I made sure that this well established element of Nigerian popular culture as well as its international profile did not get out of hand and make unfair comments about Igbo people. I reverted all hateful comments about the Igbo:


(cur) (last)  15:31, 22 June 2007 Imbelieve (Talk | contribs) (24,228 bytes) (unfair, uncited statements)


On the following occasion, The contributor cited NAFDAC(National food and drug Administration) as blaming the Igbo for distribution of fake drugs, I deleted this even though I as well as all informed Nigerians were well aware that Dr. Dora Nkem Akunyili and Ijeoma Nnani, both igbo women and NAFDAC officials have made many succesful raids on counterfeiting facilities in Igbo Nigeria)

(cur) (last)  18:47, 25 June 2007 Imbelieve (Talk | contribs) m (24,229 bytes) (get references for the fake drug and crime statistics first before editing.)


But yet, the vandalisms began and I asked for an explanation, none was forthcoming, instead the infantile behavior worsened.

(cur) (last)  03:45, 12 June 2007 Imbelieve (Talk | contribs) m (24,197 bytes) (Why has this page lost 2,000 bytes without any discussion?)


Those who chose to edit wikipedia should cultivate encyclopeadic etiquete, and build a reputation as an educated encyclopedic contributor, not a sentimental vandal seeking to promulgate non-existent immaculacy.

Learn from Rexparry sydney and Picaroon how to settle discords, and with proper discussion such as this, the issues can be easily settled. If you do happen to be 193.120.171.211, there were 8 vandalism revisions on several occasision including administrators, but yet the vandalisms would not cease.


I am not sure what you constitute encyclopedic entries, Lawrence, perhaps buttered down information. The Anti Defamation Legue does not even delete anti semetic information, but instead addresses each point with intelligent answers. I wish we could all learn from them rather than throw cyber tantrums. Honestly, if you cant stand non individual crtisism, then it is to your disadvantage to go on the internet where 1,154,358,778 users access daily. Internet usage

Would you like for Encyclopedias to advertize all nationalities as though it were a financial sponsor, or to intelligently address both the possitive and negative issues as several news outlets such as CNN, TIME, BBC among dozens of others have done while some other (but not including those Nigerians who know that admiting ones problems is the first step to a solution) Nigerians make effort to cover up all references to all faults?

Should we embelish the Igbo page somemore? Or Is it not enough that Gustavus Vassa (aka oladuah equiano) is featured as an igbo regardless of his baptismal records linking him to South Carolina?

I could easily delete the entire section linking him to the Ibos, but guess what? Logical and intelligent people formed an entire section addressing this issue with possible scenarios, I would encourage you to look here and learn Practical example of how to deal with encyclopedic material you dont like

A reputable encyclopedia such as britannica, when faced with such a cross road would make 2 branches and explain each possibility in sub sections.


Lawrencenwobu is making effort to be a good editor, but his neutrality and encyclopeic impersonality are in question, and his only contributions are 5 relishing Igbo information including "a more comprehensive list of highly notable and famous Igbo people" and more recently and notoriously, a vandalism of material that does not look like a rainbow coated utopia which culmunated in this page.

"22:57, 6 July 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Igbo people (→419 section) (top) <---vandalism

20:45, 6 July 2007 (hist) (diff) Igbo people (→419 Advance fee fraud) <---vandalism

18:16, 6 July 2007 (hist) (diff) Igbo people (→419 Advance fee fraud) <---vandalism

13:22, 24 February 2007 (hist) (diff) Igbo people (→Famous Igbo People - I have added a more comprehensive list of highly notable and famous Igbo people) 13:08, 24 February 2007 (hist) (diff) Igbo people (→Famous Igbo People)

02:17, 1 February 2007 (hist) (diff) Ukwuani (→Language)

02:10, 1 February 2007 (hist) (diff) Delta Ibo"


My edits are almost entirely Nigeria based and when I edit both Nigerian and Igbo pages, I put truths ahead of my personal feelings. Learn from the TELL magazine and tell truths before emotions.

Lawrencenwobu, aka 193.120.171.211 or mistakenly otherwise with apology, you are not Abacha nor state controlled communist media, you cannot control nor surpress verifiable and adequately cited information, the height of your power in a community effort encyclopedia, is to discuss as picaroon suggested, as well as provide counter information which must be referenced.

At very worst, this information is to be written under a section of Igbo popular culture, as any real Nigerian can guarantee.It is a topic I remain neutral to, though most Nigerians regard it as fact.

After seeing that the vandalism on the igbo page had been reverted over 8 times including administrator warnings, and that the once free article has now been locked due to your account, it was not very wise to put your reputaion into such matters as you could lose future credibility for sentimenal bias as well as be banned.

It was never my intention for this page to come to this, I expected that it could be modified and discussed maturly, but a vandal war was totally uncalled for, and it speaks enough of your character to warrant discredit to your opinion. However, whatever is the outcome of this section, I am conviced that I have contributed with no bias, and that everyones opinion is of equal value in the open-source/community-contribution based society


with respect of both your character and opinions,

Imbelieve 20:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Compromise

I have attempted to compromise between the points of view you two hold by removing the information that was only related to 419 scams, and left the information that is directly related to the sentiment among many non-Igbo Nigerians that Igbos are responsible for the scams. This is backed up by a citation. All additions to the article should also have a citation. Picaroon (Talk) 21:48, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

It is now clear to me that this 419 stuff imposed on the Igbo site was done by Igbo haters who did not deem it fit to include anything of such stuffin both the Yoruba and Hausa people sections.This is clearly a hate attack on the Igbo and i will go to any lenght with wikipedia staff, to get that blasphemy removed. Watchout!

I also have the option of creating failed banks, 419,government corruption etc in the Yoruba and Hausa people section to strike a balance. 12/07/07


I have just checked the Yoruba and Hausa people section of wikipedia and there is no mention of any crime associated with these groups.These seems to suggest that the 419 stuff added to the Igbo people page was done out of mischief. There are many vices indeed to a larger scale in Nigeria which can be attributed to both the Yoruba and Hausa.Again the anti-Igbo sentiment piece tried to use the personal opinion of Reuben Abati and Bode Eluyera's article to justify it. This is very wrong, as the personal opinion of individuals does not justify the section. There also exist anti-Yoruba sentiments, and anti-Hausa sentiments to a large extent in Nigeria. Indeed no ethnic group is free from such hatred,and many opinion articles have also highlighted such sentiments. Thus both the 419 topic, and anti-Igbo sentiments topic, to the extent that such things does not exist in both the Yoruba and Hausa people page should be scrapped from the Igbo section as well.12/07/07



Final compromise: I have slightly modified it to reflect the true reasons of the anti-Igbo sentiments which apart from the normal African penchant to hate his own kind, has more to do with petty jealousies of the Igbo enterprising and domineering mien in areas where they have migrated to. I have gone ahead to totally remove the 419 topic because i have noticed that none of the vices with which both the Yoruba and Hausa people are associated with in Nigeria was mentioned in their sites. The Igbo section cannot be treated differently from others. I hope this will be taken with a sense of fairness and equality as a final solution to this controversial issue. 12/07/07


This so called compromise is even worse. It is one thing for non- Igbo Nigerians to have certain steretypical sentiments about the Igbo as claimed by you, and it is another thing for that stereotype to be true or proven with empirical facts or data. For example: as i said earlier, the fact that many non-Igbo Nigerians seem to think Igbos dont go to school does not make it right as the jamb statistics readily proves, thus it would be wrong to put something in the public space on assumptions or on personal public opinions. Indeed as i said earlier even the EFCC data does not support such assertion as there are more Yoruba's listed as wanted.Besides sentiments against the Igbo in Nigeria has more to do more with the petty jealousies associated with Igbo doggedness, enterprise, the normal African or Blackman penchant for self hatred, and perhaps the Biafran war.10/07/07


If we dare to carry out an indepth analysis of the various dimensions of 419 including the present day yahoo boys (most of whom are Yoruba and from the Delta), failed banks (corporate 419)tribunal in the Abacha era which prosecuted many failed bankers most of whom where Yoruba's, and government corruption that touches the customs, Nigerian airports authority, retired billionaire military officers ( most of whom are from the North)boards and parastatals,NITEL, etc,etc you would find that the Igbo who has been so much marginalized since the end of the war has not even played any significant role in such massive government scams. I hereby suggest once again that the references to 419 should be totally removed to strike a balance. 10/07/07


Finally Nigerians should stop this despicable attitude of trying to label ethnic groups of vices in isolation. 419, identity thefts, bank fraud and even armed robbery, and all kinds of bizarre crimes including cannibalism etc exist in Europe and America as well. No society is perfect. So those of us who live abroad should stop being so petty and primitive by trying to lump a crime exclusively on an ethnic group, it is a great example of the Blackman's penchant to hate his own kind and general disharmony that has held Africa down.10/07/07

Of the hundreds if not thousands of 419 scammers that I have met, all but one have been Igbo (the other was Yoruba). Even when one meets 419 scammers from outside of Nigeria, such as in Cd'I or ZA, they are Igbo boys with Nigerian accents. I think that the Igbo/419 connection is a completely reasonable one to make; however, I cannot imagine how this could possibly be addressed in the article in a way that would not be interpreted as anti-Igbo racism. It is a difficult situation/Na jaga jaga o! Heather 21:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Igbo population and origin

The current population of the Igbo people is close to 60 million or over 50 million, whichever you prefer. See www.theigbolifemagazine.com. About the origin of the Igbos, you reported Egypt's "Amu" as children and "Umu" for Igbo children. Also Igbo "Amu" is a male organ of reproduction. I have a new theory about the origins of the Igbos. If Wikipedia is interested in offering a grant for this research, please contact me through www.theigbolifemagazine.com. Note also that Mbaise is not a town, rather a county made of 5 towns: Enyiogwugwu, Ngwuru,Ekwereazu,Ahiara and Ezinihite. Please consider advertising in "The Igbo Life Magazine". A good job on your Igbo facts! You have done more than a majority of Igbo people have done about themselves. My fellow Igbo people, this not a knock, rather a fact that Igbo historians and scholars, or anybody else's historians and scholars for that matter, are a small fraction of the total population. Please visit www.theigbolifemagazine.com today and often. --c.Ihekoronye Onyeananam Onyeulo; (Sarawa - Alumni of SPC Calabar)--

(I have moved your comment to the bottom of the page, per Wikipedia convention.)
The link you have provided for the Igbo's current population gives me an error. When I remove the "h" from "Igbo", I get an advertisement page for an as-yet-unpublished magazine. You may be right about the Igbo's current popuation, but we need to be sure to only use reliable sources on Wikipedia. Do you have a better source to back up your numbers?
As for your theories on the origin of the Igbo, they can be reported here too, as long as they are published in reliable sources. Let us know when your ideas are published so we can read them and decide how or if they should be integrated into the encyclopedia. — Brian (talk) 07:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Wikipedia, please correct the mistake on your homepage to read His Eminence Francis Cardinal Arinze, not just Francis Arinze. Africa deserved a chance for the first black African Pope, the same way South Africa and all of Africa deserved world cup 2006. When Africa when? When black skin when? When will we get our fair share? Eloi, Eloi, lama sabbathani? --c.Ihekoronye Onyeananam Onyeulo

We don't use titles like "His Eminence" to refer to someone every time they are mentioned; the use of these is restricted to the lead of the article on the person. Please remember that Wikipedia has a neutral point of view. Picaroon (t) 15:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Egyptian - Igbo language parallels

Shouldn't this section be in Igbo language? Llajwa 14:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Igbo and Intelligence

It appears that the most intelligent of the Igbo are the Owereish Igbo - that is, the Owere, Mbaise, Umuahia, Uzuakoli, Orlu, Egbema, Okigwe, Ikeduru, Mbaano, Mbaitolu, Oboowo, Ngo Okpuala, and the regions around this place. The people of this section usually think in terms of logic, philosophy, theory, and psychology - that is, critical and imaginative thinking. This view is open to criticism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.147.246 (talk) 06:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)