Talk:Igbo Jews

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Contents 1 Bnei Menashe 2 Benei Gath, Benei Zevulun, Benei Menashe 3 Igbo Jew population 4 U guys need sources 5 Deleting DNA Information 6 "related groups" info removed from infobox 6.1 Is there any True evidence of Some Igbo Jews being Christian?

[edit] Bnei Menashe

It says in the article that it's believed that the Bnei Menashe left Africa at some point heading eastwards, and that this is how the presence of the descendants of Menashe could be found in both Africa and E. Asia. Based on what I've read, as well as on common sense, this explanation seems me ludicrous. The Bnei Menashe have no tradition that their ancestors were ever in Africa following Yetzi'ath Mitzraim, so on that basis alone, this claim seems to undermine the oral tradition of the Mizoram bnei Menashe. Beyond that, however, is the fact that, for millennia, people identifying themselves as members of whatever shevet have lived together without the implication that there were ever mass migrations exclusively of members of a single tribe, and nobody's had a problem with it. The closest thing to a genuine claim to such a phenomenon is that the Beta Israel are descendants of Danites who went south instead of north when they were given a new allotment by Hermon to compensate them for the fact that they were never fully settled in Gush Dan bcz of the Plishtim. That other tribes migrated en masse is highly suspect, precisely because there is no record that the tribes ever would have made such a migration, other than Dan, for any imaginable reason. Claims to be members of Menashe or Efrayim, however, that notwithstanding, are not quite so suspect, because denizens of the nation of Israel [i.e., the "Northern Kingdom"], when it was still independent, apparently frequently referred to themselves as Efrayim or Menashim as freely as they referred to themselves as members of their actual tribe. Whether this was bcz of Ya`aqov's blessing on Efrayim or not is only of passing interest to this discussion, but the fact remains, that it has long been accepted that the Persian Jews who claim descent from Efrayim are claiming descent from the dispersal of the Northern Kingdom, rather than from Judæa, rather than actual descent from Ephraim, son of Jacob. Now. Why do I say all this? Because it seems to me that practically all of the current article is written by someone who's trying to establish an authoritative history for the Jews of Nigeria, rather than to report an established authoritative history. That's all well and good, but Wikipedia is not the place to do so. In order to maintain Wikipedia's integrity as an authoritative, i.e., reliable, online reference, the WP:NOR policy explicitly prohibits such an exercise. I'm all for research into traditions, but this stuff, which appears to be some kind of synthesis passed off as reliable history, does not belong here. Tomer^talk 05:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Greetings Tomer. On your first point, there are CERTAIN Igbos who believe that one group of Igbos is from the tribe of Menashe. They are not connected to the particular Bnei Menashe in India. This is a legend amongst certain Igbo. There are some claims made by early writers such as Nahum Slouschz in his book, Travels in North Africa page 230 that mad the claim that there were certain inscriptions that indicated that members of the tribes of Asher and Zevulun lived in Carthage early on during the foundation of it. I agree with you that if one is trying to write an article about the Igbos there is a format it should follow and should seperate the legend from what has had some actual scholarly writing about it.--EhavEliyahu 07:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Argh. User:Mophir blanked the article for some reason. I've undone the blanking... the answer is to clean the article up and make it comply with wikipedia standards, not to just summarily blank it. Tomer^talk 02:48, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Benei Gath, Benei Zevulun, Benei Menashe

I propose to move the details of the 3 lineages from the African Jew page to the Igbo Jews page. Let me know if there's a good reason to leave it where it is. Fayenatic london 10:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, done. Fayenatic london 14:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Igbo Jew population

There are many Igbos claiming Jewish ancestory then those who are Jewish by faith.

On Igbo Jewish Origins

Some group of Igbo show traces of Jewish origin. A report by an African American Jew on the Ibo Landing in 2002 on the Nri religion of Igbo points out the similarites between the two cultures. But while the Nri may claim Jewish origins, it does not mean that all Igbo groups are Jewish. In fact, the Nri recognise the existence of the Igbo before their arrival in Igboland. There are other migrant groups that settled among the Igbo in Igboland as well and became Igbo. They include Idoma, Igala, Efik, Benin, etc. But the Nri religion and culture being imperial and overlording supressed the original Igbo culture and became dominant, ruling a vast land of what is today middle belt, mid west and deep south of Nigeria. The clash that came with the rise of Arochukwu culture, during the slave trade with the help of Ohafia, Abiriba and Abam warriors, against the Nri culure, still points to the various ideological differences and origins in Igboland.

Igbo Jews, as opposed to Igbo. --Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 15:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Uduma Kalu

[edit] U guys need sources

This article needs some sources friends. i saw some strange stuff about forced conversion. i am trying to learn more an not as an editor but as a user it is hard, if you dont have sources.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 15:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting DNA Information

I am deleting the DNA information. No DNA testing has been done in Nigeria on the Igbo that shows that they are descendents of Kohanim. The source that was used as source doesn't show this.--EhavEliyahu 15:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

In order to clarify my point. I am the one who wrote the PDF article that is being used as the source. I was told by word of mouth that some DNA testing had been done, but I later found out that this was not the case. The article is incorrect because it does not give a reference for the results of such testing. When I began to look into the word of mouth claim I found out that I had been misled. If you want further proof that DNA testing has not been done or yeilded such results email Rabbi Goren, who is the owner of the web-site used as the source. He orignally took the article from a web-site that I owned where I was updating the article based on newer information. He can verify what I am saying on this matter. Also, if there was DNA testing done the artilce does not sufficiently show the details to be the case. When I wrote the PDF I tried to write it in a way that it it was known that it was claimed by some that DNA testing had been done. If you contact Remy Ilona who is also listed as a co-writer of the PDF document he can tell you that though Igbos desire such testing to be done it hasn't been done to date.--EhavEliyahu 11:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 17:05, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is there any True evidence of Some Igbo Jews being Christian?

As I read about the religion heading, I wondered if that could be an error or not, since I thought that could be because of the widespread common knowledge of Christianity being an Top African Religion on Wikipedia itself, and therefore somehow gone too far with it on Wiki itself. So if you found out that i'm correct just other then answer me edited that out please. And to say as I wondered, how could Jews especially the Igbo Jews be Christian as well be Jews, the Religion they practiced Most of all?-Jana

If you read anything R' Gorin has written about his experiences among the "Igbo Jews", who regard him as their "Chief Rabbi", as it happens, you will almost immediately find that he states that the vast majority of them fit into the category of what normative Judaism defines as "Messianic"...primarily because the vast majority of them believe Jesus is the Messiah. 68.112.202.189 (talk) 10:35, 31 January 2008 (UTC)