Talk:If—

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If— is part of WikiProject Poetry, a WikiProject related to Poetry.
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This page was already deleted. I undeleted the talk page from before to show why. Relisted at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/copyvio. Angela 18:27, Oct 6, 2003 (UTC)

Other sources have an exclamation mark after 'Hold On' - should it be there?

Died in 1936. Isn't this still copyright? And anyway, Wikipedia is not the place for source texts! -- Tarquin 17:09, 27 Sep 2003 (UTC)

If he died in 1936, this is copyrighted until 2006. At18 21:56, 27 Sep 2003 (UTC)
  • Apologies for listing on vfd. Getting too many timeouts to edit really. Took 5 attempts to post to vfd. Is the poem covered by UK copyright law or US copyright law? I *think* UK copyright law is only 50 years. Secretlondon 18:50, Oct 6, 2003 (UTC)
    • It's covered by UK copyright law in the UK, but US copyright law in the US. (like any work) European copyright got extended to 70 not long ago anyway. Morwen 21:35, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I meant deleted a while ago, not deleted today. It does no harm to be listed at VfD as well anyway as more people will see it there. I should have added the boilerplate so you knew it was already lisgted at VfD/copyvio but it didn't seem worth it when it would take five minutes to edit it so I was goign to do it later. Sorry! Angela 19:04, Oct 6, 2003 (UTC)

According to my anthology of Victorian poetry this was published in 1892, and as such public domain in the US and UK. I despise the poem as much as I hate Invictus, but copyright is not a reason to delete it. But do we really want another Timothy McVeigh to find succor here? -- Smerdis of Tlön 02:08, 7 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I agree--this is not a copyright violation. Removing from VfD/copyvio and re-nominating it at the normal VfD as source text. --Delirium 22:01, Oct 12, 2003 (UTC)


The dash in the title seems to mean links are getting messed up (since it's an extended-ASCII character). Are there any objections to moving the page to If (poem) or something similar? Shimgray 02:25, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Since there don't seem to be any objections, I'm going ahead with this change --Lox (t,c) 17:25, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


My father gave me a copy of this poem, and I've since placed it on my wall to remind me that I need to be living a virtuous, hard-working, and respectable life. I'm disappointed that there are a couple of negative opinions about it here. I think the poem is actually very different from Invictus in that it leaves room for the subject to follow God, does not endorse cold-hearted resolve, and overall simply has a much more positive tone. I don't know if Timothy McVeigh ever cited this poem as one of his favorites, as Smerdis of Tlön seems to suggest above, but to imply that this poem inspires megalomania is ridiculous. This poem is just what it appears to be--an admonition to grow up as a responsible man. I suspect that probably a lot of people don't like this poem because it is male-oriented, but if more people tried to live like the man depicted in this poem, I think the world would be a better place. ~~SCW 10/17/06

Corrected Myanmar to Burmese. Innapropriate on many levels for the orwellian language of a military dictatorship to be used when the translator stands firmly (as in the poem) against said military dictatorship. Refer here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi for use of Burmese in association with Aung San Suu Kyi. - BJS1/14/2007

[edit] Text of poem

Text of poem has been removed. As has already been mentioned on this talk page, Wikipedia is not for source text. That's what Wikisource is for. :) So, there's a Wikisource box there now. --Midnightdreary 22:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)