User talk:Iceness

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[edit] Welcome

Hello Iceness, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 17:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC) ╫

[edit] License tagging for Image:Usedstill.jpg

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[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Emo

Hi.

I see you have decided to create a music WikiProject. I'm not well versed in evaluating or managing Wikproject pages, but I made a few adjustments on the page as a start. You can look or request for help in Wikipedia:WikiProject Council, or read Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide for further instructions on how to maintain and improve a WikiProject, and manage relevant articles.

Good luck in your endeavors! :) ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶ 15:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC) ╫


I do not believe that Wikipedia:WikiProject Emo is in the best interests of Wikipedia, and can only see it encouraging violations of WP:NPOV and WP:NOR. I've nominated the project for deletion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Emo. Please feel free to state your case there. Also, please read WP:FU as to why we are not allowed to use fair-use images outside the article namespace. -- Ned Scott 07:09, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello. This is to give you some clarification why I, and perhaps some others, maybe like Ned above, have serious reservations about your project. There are the questions about page layout, which, while serious, do not relate to what some might perceive as the potentially fatal flaws of the project. The most important objection in my eyes lies in the prohibition of using wikipedia to help legitimize a Point of View. Unfortunately, there are no existing universally respected sources which have yet come forward with a definition of "emo" which has been agreed upon. This is important, because, if there is no existing consensus on the definition of a term in the outside world, than any attempt to formulate such a definition in wikipedia will inherently qualify as putting forward a specific point of view, rather than reflecting a neutral point of view. Secondly, as an outsider who, factually, pays no attention to the genre in question (actually, I never even heard of it before you created your project), I am forced to ask who would be helping to define this genre. As the project page is currently layed out, I tend to get the impression that, ultimately, you would play a major, possibly an extraordinary, part in making whatever definition if any is ever decided upon. That could in and of itself violate the guidelines regarding consensus. Both of these concerns, however, could be adressed by a major restructuring of the project page, and I strongly advocate that you do restructure the page to conform to the guidelines regarding neutral point of view and trying to establish a consensus. Lastly, if you will note the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory, there are, as we speak, over one thousand separate active and inactive WikiProjects out there. About fifty of these deal with the music field exclusively. Several people, myself included, think that maybe this ever increasing balkanization of the music editors on wikipedia may actively contribute to making the amount and quality of content being generated worse, not better. Certainly, disagreements about terms, page layout, and even "turf wars" could easily arise between the different projects. On the basis of all of the above, I would like to ask you to perhaps consider trying to turn your existing project into perhaps a work group of either the Wikipedia:WikiProject Music genres, Wikipedia:WikiProject Music, or any other project which might be broad enough to include it. If that project has an active collaboration, that would be an additional incentive, as it would potentially give an article relating to your subject the input of a greater variety of editors if one of them is chosen as a collaboration. Please at least consider these points, and I wish you luck in your pursuit of creating more and better pages on wikipedia regarding this subject. Badbilltucker 19:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Iceness, thanks for your comment. I am by no means an expert on WikiProkjects and I know precious little about emo, but I'll try to answer your questions:

1) Deletion discussions on MFD tend to go on for 5-7 days. Since the discussion started on September 25, I expect it'll be closed around the end of the month.
2) You're absolutely right that a collaboration of users is important for the success of any WikiProject; most try to start out with five core users, so you're a little behind the curve, but that doesn't mean that it can't work. If the project is kept, I would:
a) make a note on your user page about the project
b) make a note on the Emo (music) talk page, if you haven't already; since comments on busy talk pages get archived, you may want to fashion a "project banner" to put in the header of that talk page, like the one that is there now for WikiProject Punk music.
c) any articles that people can agree are definitely emo, you can put that same banner from b) on the top of their talk pages as well. This is a fairly standard way to gather interest in a WikiProject, as it is only seen by those with an interest in the subject, usually.
d) Good luck. Feel free to reply here or on my talk page, I'll have both watchlisted. -- nae'blis 16:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
e) P.S. I encourage you to eat, sleep, and breathe No original research if this project is to be a success. Soliciting/citing message board advice about the definition of "emo" is doomed to failure on Wikipedia. Establishing a cadre of users who can help look up citations and artist interviews/reviews to help support concrete definitions will be its strength, in my opinion. -- nae'blis 22:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project banner

You will need a project banner to really get the attention of any potentially interested parties out there, hopefully with a good photo included to help grab the reader's attention. Here is one proposed banner, based on the banner of (Template:WikiProject North Dakota is good). A version of the text might include the following data:

50px
This article is part of WikiProject Emo,
a WikiProject developed to create high-quality articles about Emo music. If you wish to participate, feel free to edit this page or come to the project page to take part in the discussion.

Open up to edit this page, copy in exactly and then use the copy function to copy, character for character, the text above. Copy in the name of the photo in the place of the three "?"s, store this file as WikiProject Emo music on a page of that name, and then just add the text {WikiProject Emo music}} with two {'s at the front to the top of any talk page of an article you think falls in the scope of the project. I can't do it exactly here or you won't be able to clearly see the text; that's why I wrote it the way I did above. Just make sure you substitute in a copy of the page name of the photo you wish to include in the place of the three "?"'s. However, as has been stated above, I really think you will need to almost obsess on the idea of neutral point of view for this to be anything like a success. Good luck. Badbilltucker 22:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to ask any questions as the need arises. And also prepare for the one question to you which I think will inevitably arise. What will you do when someone else decides that a given act qualifies as "emo" and you personally don't? That's probably where any difficulties will arise, particularly over NPOV, not in figuring out who to include, but figuring out how or why to exclude an act from consideration by your project. Good luck, and I'm happy to lend any help I can. Badbilltucker 23:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
In response to your last posting, it was a "strong delete." You will still have to prove that this project will meet the neutrality rules of wikipedia, and I, personally, am still far from convinced you will. That is no criticism of you necessarily, simply saying that, as the project page is constructed, it is more likely to receive point-of-view responses than those which are acceptable in wikipedia. I have repeatedly suggested that you alter the project page, and I do so again now. If I might make a suggestion, I would think that your first priority might be to make the page Emo music as good as it can be. This is normal for all such projects, as the page bearing the project's name is generally the most important one to the project. On that page, you can then include all the various means of defining the genre that have yet been produced, and make an initial listing of the bands that meet the various definitions. Please read, or re-read, the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide for how to format a project page. Alternately, if the project for whatever reason cannot be sufficiently NPOV to remain here, you might consider working in one of the other wikimedia, like Wikibooks. Just remember that, in wikipedia, NPOV is more than just a guideline, it is an official policy. You would also benefit from learning that it is appropriate to add a new comment on the bottom of the page, not the top. And your recent comments at Talk:Underoath#The discussion page needs a massive cleanup call into question whether you are yourself serious about this project, or are trying simply to label these bands with a "random sucky genre". I myself note that the first comment on your discussion page here was a warning to not vandalize the works of others. And, at the risk of "bloviating" about the subject (as per your comment on the Talk:Roxette page which has since been removed), there is in my eyes serious question as to whether you are serious about anything here at all. If not, then I imagine both your project and you will be gone in relatively short order. Badbilltucker 14:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism to Avril Lavigne

My apologies for my earlier mistake. You were not the one who inserted the offending data, you were in fact the one who removed it. On my first viewing of the material, I mistakenly received the impression that you were the one who inserted it. You have my profoundest apologies for my mistake, and my thanks for having acted as you did in removing the bizarre statement. My apologies again. Badbilltucker 21:23, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Userboxes

The color codes, and all the other parameters, can be found at Wikipedia:Userboxes#Constructing a userbox. To get the size you want, try to just copy directly the parameters of a userbox that has the dimensions you want. That's what I've done in the past. I'm afraid I don't know what e-mail you're talking about, though. I don't think I've ever given an address here, and I don't find anything in my box that doesn't look like the spam that I always get. And again my apologies for having misconstrued your deletion of a slanderous comment with your insertion of a slanderous comment. I really screwed up there.

Anyway, copying the userbox you sent me, and substituting the photo and language, you get:

Image:Emo icon 50.jpg This user is a member of WikiProject Emo Music.

The word "member" links to the Category:WikiProject Emo Members. If you don't want to create such a category, just remove the brackets and irrelevant text. You also might want to check on the picture to see if it is a fair use picture. Wikipedia:WikiProject Userboxes (yes, there is one), has as one of their objectives to remove all fair use images from userboxes, as per the Tasks section of their project page. Anyway, hope that helps a little. And my apologies for my earlier screw-up again. Badbilltucker 18:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

You'd probably want to check with the WikiProject Userboxes about using a photo you yourself have taken. I was just quoting from what I saw when I was looking at the project page to try to find the parameters of the userboxes. I am in no way an expert on this (having only made one or two myself), but I think you could use a photograph of your own. Also, there's the question of when they'd actually get around to working on your userboxes with fair use images. I don't know how many they have to go through, but they may not get to your project for some time. Good luck with the project. Badbilltucker 19:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Avril Lavigne

Considering you have stated elsewhere that you manage a message board about this artist, I thought you might be interested in knowing that there is a new project devoted to her and her work. Badbilltucker 21:31, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

This "radical member of the wiki police" has no intention of shutting it down, and, actually, the current guidelines more or less require three months of total lack of activity and only having one member, the founder, or less as active members. So, with your presence, the project page will probably remain in place, unless the project becomes inactive for a very long time and is constructed in a unusual and perhaps point of view way. And there is some way (I don't know how; I've never actually dealt with them) to get the project listed on the Wikipedia:Community portal as a new project. Good luck with all the music projects you're involved in. Badbilltucker 22:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject

I added my name to the participants section and can probably help out a little bit. Thanks. Dark jedi requiem 02:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I too have added my name to your Wiki project. I'm in the process right now of adding the banner to all Emo band articles, and adding bands that should be expanded upon, or created to the list. I have a good knowledge of the genre from around 1994-2000, and should be able to offer insight, and info on alot of things. If you have a "public safe" email address, please post it on my talk page. --Threatis 03:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Project on Emo Music

Thank you for the invite to Wikipedia:WikiProject Emo, however I will have to decline the invite. I do not know a lot about emo music and the only reason I posted was to try and resolve the My Chemical Romance genre dispute. If you do need help however in something I am willing to help please just contact me on my talk page and I will try to help if I can and if I can't I will try and point you in the right direction. Thanks again, but I don't feel I know enough to truly be active in the project.  Orfen User Talk | Contribs 20:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] wp:emo

hey this is Dylan Beattie aka ""doody_09"" i recently joined wikiproject emo and have since started the article Sleepytime Trio and i am planning on starting another would just like to know your opinion on the article if at all possible contact me on my talk page Doody 09 04:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Council roll call

Hi there. You are receiveing this message because your name appears on the WikiProject Council participants list. The WikiProject Council is currently having a roll-call; if you are still interested in participating in the inter-project discussion forum that WT:COUNCIL has become, or you are interested in continuing to develop and maintain the WikiProject Guide or Directory, please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Participants and remove the asterisk (*) from your name on the list of participants. If you are no longer interested in the Council, you need take no action: your name will be removed from the participants list on April 30, 2008.

Melon‑Bot (STOP!) 22:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comment at Talk:August Burns Red

Yes, Christian deathcore. I can hook you up with some bands if you like. --Pwnage8 (talk) 21:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:Warship.jpg

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