Talk:Ian Svenonius

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ian Svenonius article.
Article policies
Good article Ian Svenonius has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
Wikipedian An individual covered by or significantly related to this article, Ian Svenonius, has edited Wikipedia as
Ooooooooops! (talk · contribs)

Contents

[edit] Comments

First, I'd like to thank everyone for the great contributions to this page. I remember checking it less than a year ago and finding nothing. Very glad to see so many people lending a hand and thought. So many critics and reviews have dismissed Ian and the groups he's been involved with as an ironic and pretentious joke. Hopefully, Wikipedia can deliver what so many critics have fallen short of: an intelligent overview of each group's style, ideas and context.

However, I think there are a few things on this page that need to be cleaned up. Most importantly, much of the band info needs to be moved to the respective band page. (NOU, MAKE UP, CCC).

Ian has served as a "mouthpiece" for each band he's been involved with and each band has been based on distinct theories and, most importantly, a specific social context. Because of this, I think the ideas created from the context of each band should be moved to the respective band page.

I even think the discography info might need to be moved, but I'm not sure. I can't find another case where the page of a lead singer lists every release from the bands he/she sings for. I think the discography info breaks up the continuity of the page/bio. If anyone else has any thoughts please share them.


I'm hoping to make a few changes in the next week or so. If anyone has any suggestions or disagreements feel free to discuss, or email me and let me know. thanks__ The Deformed Child 02:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree with all of this. Also I think it likely that passing people may think the article "unencyclopedic" in tone, though I don't agree myself I suspect there may be a problem later down the line. I wouldn't like to suggest toning down anything, I like it as it is, but something to think about at least. --Sachabrunel 11:24, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article cleanup

This article is really bloated with content. It's all good stuff, but it should be organized and prioritized a little better. I added links to the main articles discussing the individual bands, and I'll start distilling the bands' entries to the most relevant points, specifically the ones that relate to Svenonius Drewcifer3000 01:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Background

I don't see why the background section should be included personally. It doesn't seem relevent to the artist's work, makes the article unneccesarily long, and is probably dated since the information is from an old source. It seems more appropriate for historical characters. Thanks, Ooooooooops!

As far as I know, this is pretty standard practice of Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography. Just for a few random examples, see Bob Marley, Kurt Cobain, and Melissa Auf der Maur. As for the source itself, it is definately dated, but the fact of where he was born, who his parents are, etc, don't change with time, so I don't see any problem with it. However, some of the language does imply the information is current ("His father teaches"... "his mother works"... stuff like that). Maybe a bit of language change for those two sentences might be in order... Drewcifer3000 08:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Oooooops seems to be deleting content as quickly as I can put it up. I have responded on his Talk Page. Drewcifer3000 00:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Third opinion: After reading through the discussion, I would have to agree with Drewcifer3000 in the context that this page should have a Background template, mostly per Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography. Other referenced examples can be found at Trent Reznor, Rivers Cuomo, etc. This article's main focus is about the person Ian Svenonius, not the bands that he was in (although they, of course, do contribute to what should be in this article). That being said, I must agree with Oooooooooops! when he says that information such as Ian's mother/father does may be irrelevant, but I leave that up for you two to decide (as it's not that subject of this 3O, and it appears to be removed from the article already). If you need any more help, lemme know. —  Scottjar  → Talk 18:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment: Apologies, but what I meant to say in information such as Ian's mother/father does may be irrelevant, I was referring to listing their jobs, not just information on whether or not they may exist in general. Sorry if there was any misinterpretation. Cheers —  Scottjar  → Talk 18:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I've copied the removed background section to /Background for reference. Wwwhatsup (talk) 02:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. Drewcifer (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination on hold

Please leave a note on my talk page when these issues have been dealt with. Cheers, — Dihydrogen Monoxide 05:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Any idea when he was born? If known, add to infobox
Unfortunately I have been unable to russle up that information so far.
  • Ref one contains a selflink (wlink to this page) which should be removed
Y Done
  • "Svenonius' first band, Nation of Ulysses, formed in 1988"...infobox says he's been active to 1989 - fix discrepancy
Y Done Fixed to 1988.
  • "Svenonius was born in Chicago, Illinois[1] and grew up in Hyattsville, Maryland" - need a comma or something before the ref. Better yet, move it to the end of the sentence.
Y Done
  • "Tim Svenonius" - Shouldn't have external links in the article prose; you can use this as a ref instead.
Y Done
  • The Sassy interview text (in the external links section currently) can/should be used as a ref.
My understanding is that since the copyright status of the transcript is unknown, it's better to cite the original article without an external link to the questionable transcript.
  • Svenonius, Canty, and Gamboa joined The Make-Up. Any idea why Steve Gamboa didn't?
I'm assuming you mean Tim Green, since Gamboa did join. And no, I haven't come across that information, but as far as I know he left music altogether after NoU dissolved. Besides, that seems more relevant to the NoU/Make-Up pages than this article.
  • "Svenonius has since released a solo album under the pseudonym David Candy.[19]" - This doesn't really work in the context of the previous sentence. Suggest rewording to "Svenonius also released a solo album under the pseudonym David Candy after The Make-Up dissolved.[19]"
Y Done I reworded things a bit, but not directly from your suggestion.
  • "Weird War was initially formed as an umbrella organization in 2001 to encompass disparate anti-authoritarian groups and to "challenge the idiocy of the new epoch."" - Um...? OK, firstly, 2001 shouldn't be wlinked (as a standalone date). Secondly, can we get some wlinks for the not-so-obvious words/phrases in that sentence - umbrella organisation, anti-authoritarian, etc. At the moment, it could easily be tagged with {{confusing}} (not that I will, I'm just trying to point out that not everyone will know what it's talking about). Also, a ref is needed for the quote (at least).
Y Done completely removed the sentence, since it was confusing and the typical ironic double-speak of many of Svenonius' projects.
  • Ref needed for the different names appearing on different records (you can cite the record's sleave here)
Y Done Added a ref to AMG bio.
  • "The Scene Creamers, with Ian Svenonius on vocals, Michelle Mae on bass, Alex Minoff (of Golden) on guitar, and Blake Brunner on drums" - You've already said he's from Golden, no need to say it again
Y Done
  • "In July of 2006, Svenonius released a book" - No need to wlink 2006.
Y Done
  • "a Bible, or foreign-language dictionaries" - singular would be more appropriate here, so "dictionary"
Y Done
  • Ref 23 contain a selflink (shows up in bold)
Y Done
  • Refs 22 and 24 are the same thing ;)
Y Done
  • The "Weird War" section in the discography should be the same level as the sections before and after it (L3, I presume)
Y Done Didn't notice that. Good catch.
  • "Afterward of Glen E. Friedman's Recognize (ISBN 0-9641916-6-0) (Burning Flags Press)[30] (2005)" - Ref should go after year
Y Done
  • The external links under "Interviews" shouldn't be there - they can/should be used as refs instead
The Make-Up archive is useful/not referenceable since it is a pretty sizable collection (rather than a single source). I took the Weird War interview out since it wasn't particularly important and it was from blogspot.com anyways, the Dissonance radio interview already is a citation (#1), but it's so packed full of solid information I thought it would be extremely useful to anyone wanting to learn more, and the Sassy transcript link is better placed here than as a citation (see my point about that above).

Reviewed version: [1]

Good luck, — Dihydrogen Monoxide 05:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Passed. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 01:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Make Up

Perhaps the description in the intro is not really necessary. It's repeated further down. Wwwhatsup (talk) 01:35, 20 December 2007 (UTC)