Talk:I Want to Hold Your Hand

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Former featured article I Want to Hold Your Hand is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 14, 2006.
A particular revision of this article has been selected as a candidate for inclusion in the Wikipedia OmniMusica.
Peer review This Arts article has been selected for Version 0.5 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia. It has been rated Start-Class on the assessment scale (comments).

Contents

[edit] Personal Experience - first kid on the block

I received an EP (Twist and Shout)which contained this song in California from my brother before the Beatles came to the US. I wondered about this for years, as my brother's residence in England (he went to London School of Economics for his Masters') was much later. He explained it to me recently:

He was a Peace Corps volunteer in Liberia Africa at the time. He had traveled to Nigeria and another aid volunteer from England told him about this fantastic band called the Beatles and, somehow, this EP was available in Nigeria! I guess he was making up for telling people not to buy Elvis Presley when he worked in a record store in Pomona, CA as a teen - he invariably steered them to the 'race records' in the store which Elvis had probably listened to.

[edit] Small layout problem

There is a small layout problem that causes computers with resolutions of 1024 to have vertical scroll bars. I do not know how to fix it, but I'm pointing it out.Dooga 04:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Congrats

On the FA. Very small talk page for it though :P. Aditionally, I can't find the broken archive link to the peer review above. - Estel (talk) 08:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Song Inspiration Examples

"McCartney and Lennon did not have any particular inspiration for the song, unlike their later hits such as "Yesterday", "Hey Jude" and "Let It Be"."

McCartney has written all of those songs. Perhaps at least one Lennon song should be used as an example?

[edit] Melody and Lyrics

This section mentions the "octave jump" that both singers sing; only Paul (apparently the backing vocal) jumps up an octave - John (singing the lead line) jumps up a fifth, not an octave. You can hear this in the audio sample.

This article is the biggest crock of shit we have ever read. You bloody AMERICANS... It's really disgusting.

Hey, that's a bit rough don't you think Mate?
I would like to point out that the statement that a solo connects the two bridges in this song is incorrect. There is no solo in this song. It's all verses and bridges. Have a listen before you write about details!
Where is the citation for this section? It makes a lot of assumptions that look like original research. (Example: The song is about a man expressing his feelings for his lover, and at first, the singing is done in a seemingly shy and bashful manner, with the singer pausing every few words: "Oh yeah, I (pause) tell you something (pause) I think you'll understand". However, when the chorus is reached and the singers make the octave-long jump, there is no hiding their feelings, with an uninterrupted "I want to hold your hand". The lyrics are straightforward and simple compared with later works of the Beatles.) This FA is missing a lot of inline citations! How was this missed in the peer review and FAC process? -- Malber (talk · contribs)

[edit] Missing peer review

It is said that this article has received one. It would be good to be given a link to it.

The archive is at Wikipedia:Peer_review/Archive_1#I_Want_To_Hold_Your_Hand but I don't know how to link this into the template.--Adam (talk) 14:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Fixed. GeeJo (t) (c) • 17:32, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stereo

'The song was also the first Beatles song to be recorded in true stereo'. This requires some explanation, and if there is none, removal. It was recorded in 4 tracks. The release was mono. Where did stereo come in?

Perhaps you mean that the final mix made at the time was stereo - but that would be odd, given that the releases were mono. Also, I heard in an interview with Paul McCartney that most Beatles tracks were mixed by them in mono, and the stereo mixes were cooked up later by engineers. This appears to have been the case at least up to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - see that album's Wikipedia entry.

Without explanation, the claim that it was 'recorded in true stereo' is meaningless. If it was the first track to be recorded on 4 track rather than 2 track, you could just as well say it was the 1st one not to be recorded in stereo. --Tower 14:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, regarding recordings, the article states this was the only song recorded by the group outside of London. Unless I am mistaken, the first recording of "Can't Buy Me Love" (although unreleased at the time) was recorded in Paris; which had a backing vocal track which was later dumped. It may also be noteworthy for this article that Capitol Records was originally resistant to releasing ANY Beatle records in the United States, which is why Vee Jay records released their first LP. -- ZincOrbie 17:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] German version

The article - quite rightly - covers the German version in quite a lot of detail, but it neglects to say what chart position that version reached (in Germany or any other country). It would be great if somebody could add that information. --kingboyk 01:45, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No Specific inspiration?

Is there really evidence that "McCartney and Lennon did not have a specific inspiration for the song"? The fact that they were asked to write something for the American market does not preclude them writing it with a particular event/girl in mind. --Tower 23:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I do agree with that, but I think that it is saying, the event/girl was not the main motivation.


Hammond Organ on the Studio Version?

I have proposed for over 30 years that there is a Hammond organ on the backing track of I Want to Hold Your Hand. I have always maintained that the sound that is attributed to Lennon's Rickenbacker backing track (which is under Harrison's two guitars - one doing chords and one overdubbing little riffs) is his guitar integrated with a Hammond organ. The deep leslie and tremolo effect that the Hammond uses was masterfully compressed and integrated with Lennon's guitar to create that richly textured, wall of sound that has since, never been reproduced or successfully mimicked even with today's sophisticated digital loop amps. To make a long story short, when ever the Beatles played that tune live, Lennon not only was totally unable to ever re-create that sound, he also played several chord inversions that are totally absent from his recorded version. On top of that, on the recording, he only plays fifth intervals (with some added 9th tones), in other words, each chord is only comprised of the bottom root note and the next string up, the fifth (with occasional 6th). So most chords consist of the 6th and 5th strings and on a few, the 5th and 4th strings. The organ, either played by Martin or one of the guys on an overdub, also only uses the two note intervals to cleverly mimic the guitar, yet create that lush driving texture that makes the song. It was so attractive that the Kinks, Who, Animals and just about every guitar player in the early 60's tried to mimic that at one time or another. None could do it because, its a Hammond on top of the guitar! I wrote an article for the British Beatles website 'What Goes On' and have engaged many Beatlephiles on the subject including a few Beatle book authors.

Very few people seem able to "hear" that organ meshing with the guitar, never mind obvious red flags where Lennon's alleged guitar hits low octave D notes (before the B7 after "I think you'll understand..") and bent, or oscillating open low E string tones (6th string) which is impossible in the manner heard on the record. The low D note (not Paul's bass) is impossible unless Lennon played a 7 string guitar:-)

Listen closely to the isolated backing track of the German stereo version of IWTHYH (Komm gib mir deine Hand) where the Beatles sang in German but used the same pre-recorded backing track that is from the British version. It is available and easy to isolate the left channel if one has the the first of two Capitol CD sets of Beatles that includes Something New (album) and of course Komm gib mir deine Hand . If you listen, you will at minimum, hear where John's guitar, doing backing chords, creates some of the strangest sounds, grunts, nuances and general anomalies ever heard. Why? Because its the Hammond Organ superimposed on top! The so called scholars say, "no its just overdriven amps", "old strings", "harmonic distortions" or his speakers busted or any excuse including aliens:-) The song starts out with Lennon's two intro backing chords (C to D) but at 8 seconds into it, the organ makes its stealth entrance. Its no coincidence that the usage of the Hammond was probably strongly influenced by their utilization of the organ just a few days earlier for the overdubs of I Wann be Your Man except that this time, they more stealthily, compressed and mixed in the organ to mask it. I invite anyone with an open mind, and discerning ear for subtle variances or anomalous sounds, to listen closely and respond with their thoughts. Ctenid JA March 6, 2007

I see that you have made a recent edit to your above comment, despite its date. Personally, I can’t hear an organ, and there is no mention of one that I can find. That doesn’t mean you’re not right about it, but it does mean that it’s just your opinion. That being the case, do you think you are justified in adding quite a lot of detail about something that can’t be referenced to the credits? --Patthedog (talk) 10:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)


Dear Pathdog: let me make one point. If Wikipedia is so concerned with their reputation (never mind the fact that I contributed to the book Cream by Chris Welch and have seen my articles on Eric Clapton sighted on numerous articles) then they are going to be embarrassed eventually when it is finally verified that there IS a Hammond Organ in that recording. The line up you HAVE right now showing a simple, erroneous line up of two guitars, drums, bass and vocals is laughable. This has to be corrected of eventually it is Wikipedia that will lose their coveted credibility. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drdaystrum (talk • contribs) 03:59, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, we can’t keep going over this, you’re saying the same thing. But, I agree that there is a lot of unsourced stuff in the article that needs attention. Hopefully, that will be addressed. Cheers --Patthedog (talk) 11:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Last comment to Pathdog - thank you: Let me make a last profound comment. If you acknowledge that "there is a lot of unsourced stuff in the article" then why has my Hammond organ been removed when that has just as much so called sourcing as any other "alleged" assumption of what instruments are being played and by who. I assert right now that unless photographic or video evidence of a particular session is offered or eyewitness accounts by either McCartney, Ringo, George Martin or Geoff Emerick, then NONE of the alleged instruments and players are necessarily accurate by any stretch, or can be proven with irrefutable evidence. That said, the current "hand claps" that are in the line up are assigned to all four Bealtes without a shred of evidence to prove that, ALL four Bealtes participated in the hand claps. That is hogwash and why is that allowed? Let me say in summation, that your so called "sources" are nothing more than various authors or websites offering their own SUBJECTIVE opinions on who sang, played and what instruments were used without a shred of validating evidence. Therefore, non of those sources can be authenticated unless you have George Martin, Geoff Emerick or the two remaining Bealtes verify them. Martin verified my Hammond organ in that press conference which is a hell of a lot more validation than any of those numerous hack articles on Bealtes recordings. Lastly, most books or articles concerning Bealtes songs whether books or websites like Allan Pollack's, they are all riddled with errors such as claiming the incorrect singer is the lead vocal or consistently demonstrating the lack of a discerning ear. Numerous published books on Beatles recordings are saturated with totally erroneous vocals credited to the wrong Beatle plus an egregious lack of accuracy with the instruments used. Please read "Beatles Recordings" by Curvbender Press and you will get an idea of how complex many Beatles recordings were. I will come back to this when I have contacted either Geoff Emerick or Martin which I am not trying to do through a contact with the New York Times. Get ready. When that happens, you have your definitive proof of the Hammond although it will take time. In the meantime, why is there a double standard by allowing the sources I have just pointed out as being completely invalid since they are all based on opinions and no authentication by the principles involved with the actual recording sessions. As of now, the I Want to Hold Your Hand article is extremely flawed and unless authenticated, should be removed or simply list the most benign, known facts based on the principles involved. Have a good new year. Thank you

[edit] reference for Fieldler, Boston Pops

From "Top Pop Singles 1955-1990" Joel Whitburn, 1991. Confirms release peaked at Number 55, charting for 6 weeks, debuting on the charts on 4 July 1964. I don't know how to do the footnotes... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.166.84 (talk) 02:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] removed templates

FYI, someone removed a bunch of templates here : http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:I_Want_to_Hold_Your_Hand&diff=next&oldid=108266482 . Someone may want to review and see if it was appropriate. --Spundun 23:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:03 iwantoholdyourhand.jpg

Image:03 iwantoholdyourhand.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 03:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Let's Do The Show Right Here?

“So we found this house when we were walking along one day. We [Lennon & McCartney] knew we had to really get this song going, so we got down in the basement of this disused house and there was an old piano”. This quote from The Beatles Utimate Experience website and used in the article seems ridiculous! I can’t find a direct source for it anywhere. It reads like a fairytale. All the evidence points to the song’s composition taking place in Margaret Asher’s music room in Wimpole Street. What do others think? --Patthedog (talk) 10:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Steady… one at a time. Right. McCartney may have said this as a bit of a joke or something - possibly trying to keep his living arrangements during that period a secret? Anyway, I don't think it should be up in lights the way it appears at the moment, especially as the website it is taken from doesn’t make it clear where it was sourced. I think this section should be reworked. Any objections? I’m not going to hold my breath this time either. --Patthedog (talk) 08:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)