Talk:Hyde Park, Leeds

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Bombings 2 Chestnut Avenue Myth 3 Studentification 4 Hyde Park - for Students looking for cheaper rent 5 Caribbean population in Hyde Park 6 Asian shops giving the area a local community. 7 Begging 8 Co-existence: Student vs Locals? Never!!

[edit] Bombings

From the article: In July 2005 the area made national news headlines as the home of one of the July 7th London bombers as well as being the location of the terrorists' "Bomb Factory".

The area might have made national news as the home of one of the bombers, I haven't checked July's news, but none of the bombers were as far as I can see from Hyde Park. The bomb factory is in the article about the bombings regarded as being in Burley, however I guess it can be regarded as being in Hyde Park too. Gunnar Larsson 22:03, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree and as nobody has complained I think it should be deleted. Rex the first 02:12, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

To clarify this a little, though I don't feel this needs the article changing- (this is mainly for interest), significant parts of the area that is known as "Hyde Park" by residents lies within the Headingley Ward. Changes were made to the ward boundaries in June 2004.

The July 7th "Bomb Factory" is in an area that is regarded by many as part of "Hyde Park", and lies within the Hyde Park and Woodhouse Ward though is more often marked on maps as "Burley Lodge" or "Burley". This is also the Location of the Newlands Pub, which was the main start point for the Riots. These are often referred to though as the "Hyde Park Riots".

I will in time expand this article and add some links.

One thing I feel drawn to do, however is changing the references to Anarchist and Free Party Movements. I think neither are matter suitable information about the location of people who may or may not be involved publicised. Thanks. Acidsaturation 13:36, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chestnut Avenue Myth

Just adding to this, though I'll add it here as I can't verify it - the Chestnut Avenue Myth was created by Leeds Student and was then cited as "fact" in several national publications it seems! Acidsaturation 12:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I have head this I was going to write it down but I have been unable to find proof aswell! We could contact the student newspaper http://www.lsweb.org.uk/ but they will be a different team, but I know which one I would like to be true! Rex the first 16:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't have thought anyone would remember now! I'll try and find out though, as I working with the University so should be able to have a go. Acidsaturation 17:31, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I was living in Chestnut Avenue when it was previously cited in the press as Britains most burgled street. This was in 1993-4. It rung true, as we were burgled, during the summer of 1993, and the police said that there was a gang that had systematically burgled pretty much every student house (i.e. all but about two) in the street in about a month over summer. It was definately in the papers then, I think the Mirror. I shall contact my ex housemates and see if anyone has a cutting still. Anyway, my guess is that it's a story that the press real out every now and again, to fill up space. It is however possible that it had some spark of truth once, either 1993 or perhaps some earlier incarnation.

Just for another little bit of interest, a further story I found in a very of student paper (when cleaning 10 years worth of old stuff from our office in the Student Union, was that reputedly the stats for making chestnut avenue the "most burgled street" was one summer a football game had been arranged on the park, between the two sides of the street. This was publicly advertised, and on that day a spate of burglaries occurred as it had been made pretty clear that most of the houses would be empty at this certain time! Acidsaturation (talk) 09:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Studentification

I've changed this a little, as view points do differ and I think it is fair to say that the impact is lessened compared to Headingley (for example), but should be acknowledged that some groups do see a problem. I've put the link to HeAL for verification purposes - I "umm-ed and ahh-ed" a bit as to whether this gives this one group a bit of a soap-box but reckoned enabling verification of what I said was more important. Sadly those holding opposing viewpoint that students can enrich the area are less vocal, so one voice tends to be heard more..! Anyone got any views on this? Acidsaturation 17:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it is a good link but what you have written might sound like there is more tension than there actually is, from the HeAL website

In taking strong positions it is not our intention to get at students. Please do not feel got at!

We are campaigning for Planning Statutes that can maintain the population balance between students and residents at a sustainable level, so that one group does not displace the other completely.

It might be worth adding that tension is less aimed at students than at landlords. Also you changed first Sat in August to usually in August, maybe I have my dates wrong but apart from 2005 (when there was an issue with permission) hasn't it always been the first Sat in August?Rex the first 21:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

It's a difficult one that - I think the tension is all round in varying degrees - too and from students, community and landlords. Feel free to change if you can word it better though! Unity day does vary dates, I'm pretty sure - I'll try and check with the organisers.

Also - what do you reckon to moving some of the intro - put the bits about studentificatin etc in the community section, and add a Demographics section with a bit more information about the area? Acidsaturation 06:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hyde Park - for Students looking for cheaper rent

This is clearly not a fact. The article states

"Being next to Headingley (a more expensive area) it has become a place for students to live who are looking for cheaper rent"

Hyde Park is choosen for a large number of reasons (being nearer to the university, being a more lively area, being a little more unique than Headingly which resembles Fallowfields, Alferton Rd, Clifton and every other student area in the UK).

Moreover, not all houing in Headingly is cheper than that in Hyde Park.

Hyde Park attracts students wanting to avoid the student masses in Headingly would be far more accurate, but again value-laden, so perhaps it best to just leave out the attempt's to explain why people choose Hyde Park over Headingly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sanchezhenn (talk • contribs) 10:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC).

I added this comment a while ago as I think Headingley is more expesive but I have looked and found that is it not much more expensive

Area	Av Rent	Sample size
Headingley	60.0571	891
Hyde park	56.8952	474

But then from the Unipol website:

Headingley - Housing costs are significantly higher than average.

Hyde Park - Housing costs are significantly higher than average.

So seems fine to remove it Rex the first ^{talk | contribs} 19:32, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caribbean population in Hyde Park

As I suspected, no statistics support the claim that there is a sizeable caribbean population. On the contrary, according to National statistics, Hyde Park's Black Caribbean population is below the Leeds average.

see [1]

This comment shall, therefore, be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sanchezhenn (talk • contribs) 10:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC).

thanks for checking and updating that Acidsaturation 15:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Asian shops giving the area a local community.

Highly contentious.

Any local businessman would inform that the Student population support these independent shops, such as the international supermarket. Every time I go in ther, the mile long que seems to be filled with fellow students. This exemplifies the intergration of student and natives, rather than, as the article suggests, meets the needs of the local community. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sanchezhenn (talk • contribs) 11:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC).

I think where this is contentious is in the context of the friction between students and local residents. Sadly the integration is far less than many students (and the University) would like to think. Of course my statement of this is influenced by my POV (which is both student and long term resident), and many residents would say different as would many students. Businesses cater for the population of an area, whosoever that may be - so in an area that is >50% student they will cater for students and students will keep them going. I think the original author was trying to say that there are still a number of shops catering more for the community - unless all students eat and all shops in student areas sell very specialised south asian brands and foodstuff. Acidsaturation 15:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Begging

Can somebody give a mention to the professional beggars begging outside Jackson's supermarket? Surely these dishonest and badly-brought up little fuckers need a mention, along with Hyde Park's most famous shop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArseneWanger (talk • contribs) 06:55, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that begging ("professional" or otherwise) is a problem really limited to Hyde Park. Wikipedia is not a place to air grievances. Acidsaturation (talk) 07:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Co-existence: Student vs Locals? Never!!

As an undergraduate at the University of Leeds in the early 1990s, I lived at 25 Chestnut Avenue for two years. In that time I had the pleasure to experience the daily delights of the Woodhouse and Hyde Park areas. The rousing wake up calls at 2am from drunks and rowdies, the random acts of violence, the never-ending Friday night showing of Reservoir Dogs or Betty Blue at the Hyde Park Picture House, the bad-mouthed asian gang hanging around on the corner of Hessle Place, the blatant drugs pushing in the Royal Oak and the nightly life and death decision of whether to walk around or across the Hyde Park. (And the general indifference shown by the university towards the whole situation.) Anyway... A few years ago (2003) after a job interview in Leeds. I decided to take a drive around the old neighbourhood. I stopped for a coke at the International Supermarket. Then for my trouble, on Chestnut Avenue an asian threw tirade of abuse and a half eaten cake into my car. Later on I understood why. It was July. There were no students there in great numbers so the asian gangs had returned openly to the streets. I couldn't believe it. (In the summer of 1993 my friend, who had to stay in Leeds because his parents had moved to Singapore, was attacked by a gang armed with hammers and screwdrivers outside the Brudenell Road shops. Despite reporting the incident to the police, no action was taken. On the grounds that it would upset 'community relations'.)

More should be written about how those living in Hyde Park are perpetually exploited. Because as their time spent there is transitory no inroads are made to change anything. Difference faces; same old sh*t!

PS I knew the landlord that lost the pub in the 1995 riots. Despite the story about it being used by police surveillance, the real story was more simple. The local scum didn't like the idea that the new boss had turned a loss-making drugs den into an attractive bar for 'cash paying' customers.

And in 2008 it's still going on.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.72.192 (talk) 18:34, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Firstly I've moved this down to keep the Talk page in chronological order. Thanks.

I think the article explains the tensions, and that this is a contended subject. If not then feel free to try and explain more, but try and remain NPOV - this is a perception from a personal viewpoint, and one that seems (from the phrase "local scum" to be excessively anti-local. It illustrates one part of the problem fine, but based distinctly on one viewpoint. Wikipedia is not the place for explaining residents' perceptions of exploitation.

The problem goes both ways, with students feeling intimidated by local "gangs" (though what you describe is only really borderline "gang" activity in any sociological sense of the term, and local people feeling intimidated by rowdy students. However this is not only an issue in Hyde Park and perhaps should be covered more in wider articles on studentification.

I agree that the situation in the Newlands was probably more complex than most people were aware, at present though the main published account remains that of Nick Davis in Dark Heart, which unfortunately must be relied upon, unless other research/journalism can be cited Acidsaturation (talk) 07:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)