Talk:Huseyn Seyidzadeh

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[edit] POV

Parishan, nowhere in the reference does it say Armenian Nationalists massacred Azeris. I would appreciate it if you can quote the part where it says that.

escaping widespread massacres of Azeris committed by Armenian nationalists in many parts of the South Caucasus. Ethnic Conflicts in the USSR: 1917–1991. State Archives of the Russian Federation, fund 1318, list 1, folder 413, document 21. I forgot to sign before --VartanM 05:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Please show me where it says Armenians massacred Azerbaijanis

АРМЕНИЯ. Массовые погромы мусульман в Карсской области и Ереванской губернии.. Parishan, either rewrite the text to correspond with the source or provide another that says what you claim, until then I'm reverting. VartanM 05:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Parishan you are yet to respond me in here, stop edit warring and discuss your changes. Your claim that Muslims=Azeris is OR. and the source provided isn't saying anything about Armenians massacring Azerbaijanis. Hope to hear from you soon. --VartanM 19:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

It is not OR. I provided a source that says Armenians massacred Muslims (in English, we spell it with a capital letter) for the heading reads Последняя попытка Армении. And I am providing one more source stating that Azeris in Armenia were Muslim. Hence it is fair to say the pogroms were launched against Azeris. Parishan 22:46, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

You provided source that says Muslims(my mistake) were massacred in Armenia. The source doesn't say who these Muslims were, providing another source that says Azeribaijanis are Muslim is OR. Second the source provided doesn't say who was massacring them. Third we don't cite headers, only the content. Fourth what does Country report on Armenia from 2004 has to do with something that happened in early 1900's? VartanM 23:37, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The following sentance was removed from the article because the citation is not valid. Nowhere does it say that his family fled Armenia. I request a source that confirms his family left Armenia.

"In 1918 the family fled to Tiflis and later to Baku, escaping massacres of muslims.^[1]" --VartanM 00:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Then here's another one [1]

1920.09 Массовые погромы армянами мусульман в Карсской области и Ереванской губернии.. I am okay with leaving "Muslims" there. Parishan 00:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

How is that relevant to Huseyn Seyidzadeh? Do you have a source that confirms his family fled Armenia? VartanM 01:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I do. It's in his biography: [2]. Parishan 04:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

We need a reliable third party source. azeriart.net is not. Biographies are usually cited with sources. I don't see any sources in Azeriart.net. VartanM 05:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, too bad, because this is all we have got on him. This is an Azerbaijani biography article, not a historical overview, and an Azerbaijani website is reliable enough. If you find a third party source, let me know. Parishan 05:51, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The biography is from a site hosted by deputy chairman of the Alliance for the sake of Azerbaijan Party. I'm only trying to keep this article according to Wikipedia standards, If you know any third party sources, please provide them here so we can take a look. VartanM 06:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Where in the world did you get that information from? Parishan 06:17, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

It's called whois and then google. And please don't use double standards, may I remind you that you were removing information from Church of Kish article based on it being Armenian.VartanM 07:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The Church of Kish and its history is a controversial historical matter, that is a topic of debate between Armenian and Azerbaijani researchers. The article about Huseyn Seyidzadeh, however, is a biography of an Azerbaijani film director who happened to have spent his infant years in Armenia. There is no controversy, so the presented sources are perfectly reliable. And I honestly think I have provided enough of them throughout this discussion. Parishan 10:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

His life might not be controversial, but that he fled massacres is. Given that Armenians are accused of every possible vile in Azerbaijan. In Kish, there was also a very limited number of resources and you contested the source and requested a source. Here there is one source, which I contested and requested another source. I think it's that simple. VartanM 18:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The controversial part is that there were massacres of Muslims in Armenia. I provided sources proving they did take place at the time Seyidzadeh fled Armenia. The rest has nothing to do with Armenians. And the website is not "hosted by deputy chairman of the Alliance for the sake of Azerbaijan Party." Parishan 18:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Making the link is original research. Many people left from both sides, which had nothing to do with massacres. If someone disputes a part, you should be able to provide a source substantiating it. I don't make the rules. As for the website 'whois' it and then google the name. I hope this should settle the issue unless you have another source substantiating it. You can not request removal of Armenian websites on one hand and then request the inclusion of Azerbaijani website on the other. VartanM 19:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

There is no link. The biography source says Seyidzadeh fled Armenia as a result of the massacres. You requested more sources on the massacres, so I provided them. The only reason why I removed the Armenian source from Church of Kish is because (and I am ready to repeat this as many times, as it takes) it is "a controversial historical matter, that is a topic of debate between Armenian and Azerbaijani researchers." This article clearly has nothing to do with Armenia. The little part that has, is already covered by a third-party source.

WHOIS doesn't generate the name of any Azerbaijani politician. Parishan 20:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

No, the link of massacres having happened there has nothing to do with him. You provided an Azerbaijani source, in Azerbaijani. At least the Armenian site was in English. I dispute the claim, please provide a source which claims he fled because of massacres. Many people from both sides left for reasons that has nothing to do with massacres. The WHOIS traces the IP location to Vahid Gasimov who host the site (server) which is what I have said. But this in any case is irrelevant, because you are making a link between the claim that he escaped massacre and that massacre did happen. Now, be kind and provide a source claiming he fled because of massacres. I don't understand why I need to repeat myself this much. VartanM 00:23, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I have already provided a source, which is the only source in the Internet that contains detailed biographic information on this personality. I don't see a problem with it. The website is reliable enough because it merely consists of articles that have to do with Azerbaijani culture, and this person contributed solely to Azerbaijani culture. This is not a political issue. It is unnatural to expect third-party sources to provide information as detailed as this. Now, if you find a third-party source that challenges the information presented at Azeriart.net, you are free to dispute it.

And just for the record, there can be dozens of people in Azerbaijan named Vahid Gasimov, as the name is pretty common. Parishan 01:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The website might be reliable enough for everything which is not conflictual. This on the other hand is, but I understand that it is the only site which you could find anything relevant on him, not everyone can be Parajanov's. So, I will be ready to compromise that he fled in 1918 to keep a logical flow in the article. That he fled because of massacres, considering it is a strong word, would really require another reliable third party source. Sorry. VartanM 01:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

That was not a nice comment. Azerbaijan is home to a many fine and talented film personalities. Like Rustam Ibragimbekov, the screenwriter of an Oscar-winning film. As for your compromise, it seems apt for now. Parishan 05:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Parishan, you misunderstood me. I spent an hour trying to find a bio in English, couldn't find anything, not even an IMDB profile. I replied that way, because I know a lot about Parajanov and he came to mind on the impulsion of the moment.There were no hidden messages in my reply. I meant to say that not every film maker can be as popular as Parajanov and have English materials on them. You are making a big deal out of it, if you took it that way, then I apologize. VartanM 16:19, 3 August 2007 (UTC)