Talk:Humphrey of Hauteville

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[edit] Children

Abagelard (or Abelard) is not Humphrey. Abagelard is one of its two sons (Abagelard and Herman of Hauteville, sons of Humphrey). Calabria Geoffrey 18:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Fixed, but watch that you do not remove useful info in the process of fixing it. Also, try to make sure the English is better or ask for help in translation and syntactical structure if the edit is large enough. Srnec 05:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marriage

Can anybody clarify his marriage? Was his wife named Altrude or Gaitelgrima? Was she a daughter of Guaimar III or IV? Was she earlier married to Drogo? Srnec 23:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

There is a discussion of this topic by Thierry Stasser in the journal Prosopon (2006 issue), located as of this writing at [1]. The article is entitled "Où sont les femmes? Prosopographie des femmes des familles princières et ducales en Italie méridionale depuis la chute du royaume lombard (774) jusqu’à l’installation des Normands (env. 1100)" and is in French. The discussion starts at the end of the second to last page of the article. Basically, it postulates the existence of two Gaitelgrimas and two Purpuras associated with Guaimar III and Guaimar IV and disentangles who married whom, and who was daughter or wife of whom.

The Gaitelgrima who married Drogo is identified with the daughter of Guaimar IV and his first wife Purpura. Each Guaimar seems to have married a Purpura as his first wife (Guaimar III then married secondly circa 1018 Gaitelgrima, daughter of Pandolfo of Benevento, and Guaimar IV married secondly circa 1032 Gemma, daughter of Count Laidolfo).

By his first wife (who I shall call Purpura I), Guaimar III had a daughter Gaitelgrima I of Salerno, who must have been born before 1010, when Purpura I died. By his first wife, Purpura II, Guaimar IV had a daughter Gaitelgrima II of Salerno, born about 1030.

The wife of Drogo was Gaitelgrima II, as she married him in 1046, was widowed in 1052 and remarried Robert de Lucera and had 4 more children, marrying for a third time, an Affred, by whom she had 2 more children. It is hard to see how this could refer to Gaitelgrima I, who would have been in her forties in 1052, after which time the widow of Drogo had 6 more children by two more husbands. Drogo's wife was still alive in 1087, when she issued an act (charter?) referring to her father Prince Guaimar, her mother Purpura, and her husbands, the counts Drogo, Robert and Affred.

So the Gaitelgrima who married Drogo, had to be either Gaitelgrima I or Gaitelgrima II (rather than a Gaitelgrima born of Guaimar III's 2nd marriage - since her mother was named Purpura and not Gaitelgrima) and the dates work only for Gaitelgrima II. In addition, since she states her husbands as Drogo, Robert and Affred, she cannot be the Gaitelgrima who married Humphrey.

Toddj (talk) 02:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)