Talk:Human rights in the Soviet Union

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Contents

[edit] Page name

[edit] Soviet genocide

For a May 2005 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Soviet genocide

Although these mass murders were politically motivated rather than designed to exterminate a people (and thus do not meet the UN definition of genocide), I bow to popular usage. --Ed Poor

The redirect from Pogrom is inaccurate. Pogroms were violent mob acts committed against the Jewish population during tsarist (not) Soviet times. The most famous pogrom, in Kishinev, took place in 1903, a decade and a half before the Communist Revolution. Danny

Okay, the term pogrom is fixed.

Thanks. Danny

[edit] Soviet genocide to Soviet persecutions

As the article says CPPCG does not cover "Soviet genocide", they were probably Crimes against humanity and some of them could perhapse be described as autogenocide. Persecution covers deportations (ethnic clensing) as well as mass murder. It also covers the masive number of people sent to the gulags for political or alledged political crimes, which are not covered by the word genocide. --Philip Baird Shearer 14:26, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

From history of the page

14:19, 28 March 2006 Philip Baird Shearer (Talk | contribs | block) m (moved Soviet genocide to Soviet persecutions: As the article says CPPCG does not cover "Soviet genocide", the y were probably Crimes Agains Humanity. Persecution covers deportations as well as mass murder.)

[edit] Soviet persecutions to Human rights in the Soviet Union

From the history of the page

12:39, 27 August 2006 FrancisTyers (Talk | contribs | block) m (moved Soviet persecutions to Human rights in the Soviet Union: more npov title)

[edit] NPOV

This article is highly POV, the only citation is from an article titled " DEMOCIDE IN TOTALITARIAN STATES: MORTACRACIES AND MEGAMURDERERS" hardly an NPOV or credible article, as the website it links to does not even appear to be a credible NPOV source.

I suggest this article be brought up for review. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yuri Zhivago (talk • contribs) 12:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I have added a non-NPOV warning to the top of the main page as the article is heavily biased against the Soviet Union and previously used an academic whose perceptions of 'human rights' in the Soviet Union are highly unorthodox and distinctly built out of a bias against the USSR. This article seriously needs to be brought up for review. Hauser 05:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree that this article must be significantly improved. Basically, this is only a stub. If you want to contribute here - please do. I will try to provide more references in a few next days. However, it not a good practice simply to remove reference to a prominent historians R.J. Rummel simply because you disagree with him. If you have other good sources that say something different - please include them. Biophys 05:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Now I see that we do not need too many references here. Actually, there are many good articles already on this subjects in Wikipedia (I indicated a few of them in "See also" section). So, we need only to summarize briefly their content. I do not know if you are familiar with this subject, but the mass murders in the Soviet Union were much worse than the Holocost. Are you going also to deny Holocost? Biophys 06:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I have fixed the problem with insufficient sources for the moment. So, I would like to remove the tag. I am going to include more sources later. If you think that anything is POV, you are very welcome to include alternative points of view supported by references. Biophys 23:31, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What new data from archives?

I removed the following fragment: When NKVD/KGB and Russian state archives became publicly accessible to a certain degree after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it became possible to derive more accurate estimates. Opened archives made it possible both to debunk the exaggerations and to reveal certain facts for which only anecdotal evidence existed before. This fragment does not provides any factual numbers or data. Thus, it is useless for the readers of Wikipedia. If there are any data, they could be included with references. Biophys 04:59, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Soviet conceptions of human rights"

What you are talking about is called "Economic and social rights". They exist and usually recognized in any society. The "Soviet" concept of "human rights" did existed. However, it was not something you are writing about. As was correctly stated by Ronald Regan in his talk on this subject, rights such as free speech, free press, and free assembly in the Soviet Union are granted if they are "in accordance with the interests of the people and in order to strengthen and develop the socialist system" [1]. One could also cite Vladimir Lenin and other Communist leaders views on this subject. They are basically consistent with description by Regan. Sorry, but what you have inserted is unfortunately misleading.Biophys 15:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

O'K, I found the publication that you cite on line. It does explain the Soviet understanding of human rights, but not exactly as you stated. This needs to be explained in more detail.Biophys 21:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

unfortunatley i think u might find the only way you could make a serious small article about soviet human rights would be to read lenins state and revolution and then read some of stalins work later on in his career, gives a good outlook on what marxism would tradtionally want to see in human rights compared to how stalin changed it (there isnt a massive change really but there is some, though the world had changed). f4i 8th October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Vote

I might be useful to note that universal suffrage was only achieved in 1928+ .... in the UK. So perhaps things should be put in context hey. --maxrspct ping me 00:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, everything in the Soviet constitution (which claimed numerous rights) exited only on paper. It was never universal suffrage. Of course the paragraph we are talking about is in poor shape and not even sourced. So, I will try to fix this later.Biophys (talk) 02:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see sources other than Conquest there. He and many others usually devote a paragraph in their books on the subject. And no.. please don't put Pipes up. Later I will put up a source showing that Stalin actually encouraged democracy and accountability. --maxrspct ping me 11:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

No mention of easing of censorship towards the end of USSR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.117.109.18 (talk) 14:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

If you want to include any sources other than Conquest or describe the "easing" of censorship towards the end of the USSR (per sources), please do. That would be more constructive than place a POV tag.Biophys (talk) 15:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)