Talk:Human rights in Turkey

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Human rights in Turkey article.
Article policies
Archives: 1
WikiProject Turkey
Turkey Portal
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Turkey, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Turkey-related topics. Please visit the the participants page if you would like to get involved. Happy editing!
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
edit · history · watch · refresh To-do list for Human rights in Turkey:

No to-do list assigned; you can help us in improving the articles in the same category
It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

Wikipedians in Turkey may be able to help!
The Free Image Search Tool (FIST) may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.
48px} This article is part of WikiProject Human rights, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the Project page, where you can join the Project and contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
High This article has been rated as high-importance on the assessment scale.


Archive
Archives

Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in an archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. Baristarim 06:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Archives:

Contents

[edit] Comments

[edit] Sources

Can we please have a {{cite web}} structure? --Cat out 14:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've just added a sources tag. the problem of the edit warring seems to be due to the lack of references and sources. An article like this should be well sourced and i am sure there are plenty of references and sources out there. I've been editing HR in Morocco and think you can use it as a model to sort out the issues here. -- Szvest 22:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign
Still, the anon never gave any explanation why he/she deleted half the article. —Khoikhoi 23:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I rewrote the whole thing.. I have the impression that people who wrote this article in the first place were really having a kick out of it big time [1].. :)) And that guy is an admin now.. Go figure.. In any case, i need a few sources and then that's that.. I don't understand why we need to be continously negative.. it is HR in TR, so why wasn't it never mentioned that Turkish women gained the right to abortions, an important HR, in 1985 whereas in Poland and Ireland they still dont have that right?? Always negative, always negative.. Honestly, do some people like to get a kick out of it this negativity? Anyways, Barış(peace) people!.. Baristarim 04:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PURE PROPAGANDA, A LOT OF POV COMMENTS

This is a POV article! This is pure pro Turk and anti-Kurdish propaganda! Bleah!--193.43.176.101 09:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. Khoikhoi 03:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, I have read through the article and reread the controversial parts, and couldn't find any anti-kurdish or pro-turkish propaganda. Please speak clearly. If you want a paragraph or a sentence to be checked for POV, than we can disccuss such things here. Thanks Caglarkoca 11:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
You should have seen the older version :)) Well, this article still needs some work and certain sections contextualized. However, even its current state is good from a structural point of view. One thing that needs to be done is to find more general references, and not just for the controversial ones. Hopefully will get around to it one day! Baristarim 00:16, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Human rights of Kurdish people in Turkey

I recommend merging anything useful in that article to here. --Cat out 16:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

It already has been. yandman 16:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The line "Turkey was one of the first countries to elect a women prime minister in 1995" under Gender Equality is misleading. I can count 15 female prime ministers, from as far back as 1960. I will re-word removing reference to "one of the first". Panthro 14:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

15 out of 212 makes it the one of the first, right? :) Baristarim 16:22, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

That's debatable. My point is that there is a 35 year gap between the first woman prime minister and the Turkish PM. So I don't see how she can be described as one of the first Panthro 12:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I"m not an expert on politic but isn't a prime minister equivilent to a president? I agree with baristarim btw... Armanalp 16:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No. There are many countries that have both a Prime minister and a President. The former is the head of the government and the latter is considered the head of the executive. --Kimontalk 20:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Baristarim is a Turkish propagandist.His nationalism has blinded him toward the truth.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Idot22 (talk • contribs)

Beware the troll :) Baristarim 04:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing called genocide and some people who don't know about the history are trying to support the genocide by opening fake web sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.100.159.16 (talk • contribs)


I don't think it's a good idea to merge the two topics. Thinking of it, this article covers a much broader scope. There are GLBT rights, Alawis, torture in Turkish prisons etc. Human rights in Turkey cannot be reduced to the alleged persecution of the Kurds. Tauphon 16:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison to EU

I just happened to stumble upon this article and in reading it, I couldn't fail to notice the comparisons to EU countries:

This is in contrast with the policies of certain EU countries, such as Poland and Ireland, that ban abortion and deny this right to women. Modifications to the Civil Code in 1926 gave the right to women to initiate and obtain a divorce, a right still not recognized in Malta,[10] a EU country.

and

However, it must be noted that, even France, a founding member of the European Union, has refused to apply this treaty within its territory following a ruling by its own Constitutional Court that has affirmed that doing so would be contrary to the principle of the indivisibility of the Republic and the nation affirmed in the First Article of the French Constitution. In addition to France, many other EU countries, namely Belgium, Czech Republic, Estonia, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland and Portugal have also refused to ratify this treaty. To this day only 21 member states of the Council of Europe out of 49 have proceeded with ratification.

Since this is an article on human rights, what is the need of comparing the current status in Turkey to what's going on elsewhere? It should stand on its own, in an objective manner, and stating the facts alone.

I agree that human rights is one of the major arguments those in the EU are using to deny Turkey membership but, perhaps that could be an article in itself with maybe a section with a summary here.--Kimontalk 20:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, just as you pointed out in the last paragraph, since human rights has become such a big issue in EU-TR talks and that it has become to take precedence more than the HR issues itself. In that case, we should also remove the criticism from the EU, no? If we are going to let in the EU and EU-related criticism, there is nothing wrong with letting those paragraphs stay.
I know what you are trying to say, and I agree - however some people have insisted so much on including the EU criticisms in there, I felt obliged to add those paragraphs - nevertheless, the second example that you cited is very relevant since it concerns a European treaty, therefore its general acceptance is relevant. If we are going to include the position of Turkey towards a European treaty, it is also important to state the position of the treaty vis-à-vis other European nations. Baristarim 00:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
(somehow I missed this on my watchlist)
As to your former point (criticism from the EU), whether the comparison stays or not is irrelevant to the inclusion of EU criticism. The criticism should be addressed not by saying "yeah but, look at what you do", otherwise we'd have an ad hominem argument (or is it ad countriam?).
As to your latter point (EU treaty), I see what you're trying to say and it may be appropriate to include it.
Like you said, we're fundamentally in agreement and we should find a better way to address part 1 above. --Kimontalk 20:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)