Talk:Human rights in Sri Lanka/Archive 1

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[edit] Unsourced Infomation

Many have claimed these accuses were biased and specifically aimed to defame the Government.The riot it self had started as a direct anger against the Government and most of the initial targets were in fact Government buildings.Government declared curfew immediately and Police and the Army were out in the streets taking actions against the mobs.

Was removed per Wikipedia guidlines on sourcing of infomation, please provide proper citations. --Sharz 03:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

citation is given..Read the book written by a person who did many researches on 1983 riots and SL civil war.--Iwazaki 05:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
there seems to be a problem with the citations in this article..SO I will give you the descriptions of the book ..find it and read it . "The Cyanide War by Edgar O'Ballance. ISBN 0-08-036695-3"--Iwazaki 05:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black July Massacre

The killings on Black July have a wide range and a government commision is probably the most POV source but it is stated that it was a government study so it's allowable. The citations that I have provided are all NPOV and all the links are working, I don't know why you couldn't acsess them when you did. http://www.uthr.org/Book/CHA09.htm#_Toc523692969 http://www.greenleft.org.au/2006/676/7680 http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/11/23/10084648.html Deleting referanced infomation is a form of vandalism, please reframe from changing my legitimate edits lest you wish for an admin to be called into rectify the situation. --Sharz 07:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ANI

I have asked in ANI admin intervention to begin with to restore normality in editingRaveenS 18:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proof of my edits

This is what I wrote :

The U.S State Department has reported that there were cases of unlawful killings by government agents, arbitrary arrest and detention, poor prison conditions, denial of fair public trial, discrimination against minorities, freedom of peaceful assembly and association. The report also pointed out that there were reported cases of denial of freedom of press by the Srilankan government

I shall now quote the citation:

"unlawful killings by government agents " "Human rights organizations and other sources reported an increase in encounter killings by police. At year's end the Human Rights Commission (HRC) reported that police killed 25 individuals in police custody. The HRC determined that 20 of those individuals died as a result of torture in police custody during the year"

Above clearly states what I wrote for the unlawful killing. I am sorry but this is not Srilanka so we don't need to listen to what the SL government says. Clearly we agree that what the says HRC are wiki material.

Next

"According to the HRC and other credible sources, the use of police torture to extract admissions and confessions was endemic and conducted with impunity. In addition the Emergency Regulations make confessions obtained under any circumstance, including by torture, sufficient to hold a person until the individual is brought to court; 1,798 arrests were made under the Emergency Regulations during the year, although 1,236 of those arrested were released within 12 hours. The majority of those arrested were Tamil, although detainees included Sinhalese and Muslims as well. In addition to suspicion of terrorism, people were detained for lack of identification, narcotics, and outstanding warrants"

"Prison conditions did not meet international standards due to acute overcrowding and lack of sanitary facilities. In some cases juveniles were not held separately from adults. Pretrial detainees were not held separately from those convicted."

As for the above being the "LTTE" here is the section on LTTE prison ---> "The ICRC conducted 22 visits to 3 LTTE-controlled prison facilities and 53 visits to 17 LTTE-operated police stations. Credible observers reported that conditions in these prisons were on par with local standards "

So obviously they were talking about the Srilankan Government police station

"The law prohibits arbitrary arrest and detention; however, such incidents occurred. There were 1,798 arrests while the emergency regulations were active. The government stated that most of those arrested were released within a few days.

See word in bold. Specially MOST as this shows that not all were released and thats according to the srilankan government.


"Despite the law calling for court proceedings and other legislation to be available in English, Sinhala, and Tamil, most court proceedings outside of Jaffna and the northern parts of the country were conducted in English or Sinhala, which, due to a shortage of court-appointed interpreters, restricted the ability of Tamil-speaking defendants to get a fair hearing"

"Few legal textbooks existed in Tamil, and the government had not complied with legislation requiring that all laws be gazetted and published in English, Sinhala, and Tamil. "

"In August 2004 the UN Human Rights Committee (UNHRC) found that Nallaratnam Singarasa's right to a fair trial had been violated when in 1993 he was tortured and forced to put his thumb print on a confession that he could not read. The UNHRC called for his release or retrial and gave the government 90 days to respond. On February 2, the government replied that the law does not provide for release or retrial after the conviction is affirmed by the high court. At year's end Singarasa remained in prison, and his legal team was preparing a fundamental rights case for the Supreme Court.


In 2003 the Supreme Court convicted Tony Fernando on a contempt of court charge for both filing numerous motions before the court and for raising his voice. Fernando was sent to jail the same day only to be released more than eight months later. Fernando was never given the opportunity to consult a lawyer, prepare a defense, or file an appeal. On March 31, the UNHRC found that the government was in breach of its obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and ordered the government to enact legislative changes to ensure that similar violations did not occur again, as well as compensation for Fernando (see section 2.a.). At year's end the government had taken no action, and Fernando had yet to receive any compensation. "

"The government permits the continued existence of certain aspects of personal laws discriminating against women in regard to age of marriage, divorce, and devolution of property"

"On July 26, a senior defense correspondent for the Sunday Leader reported that President Chandrika Kumaratunga threatened to use the Official Secrets Act (OSA) against him for his critical reporting on government plans to purchase defense equipment from a foreign governme"

"Freedom of Peaceful Assembly and Association

On May 9, police and security forces fired into a crowd of rock-throwing protesters, killing 1 and injuring 15 in Batticaloa District. The estimated crowd of 500 was protesting the establishment of a new checkpoint.


On June 10, police broke up a political protest in Colombo using tear gas, water cannons, and baton charges when protesters blockaded the presidential residence."

Discrimination against minority is :

"During the year there were at least 15 confirmed reports of assault on Protestant and Catholic churches and church members by Buddhist mobs, often led by Buddhist monks. Village police were reluctant to pursue Buddhist monk agitators out of deference for their position. On at least three occasions, police charged Christian clergy with breaching the peace by holding religious services. There were numerous reports during the year of police failing to act when given prior notice of church attacks, and to be slow to respond after they occurred"


"Both local and hill Tamils maintained that they suffered longstanding systematic discrimination in university education, government employment, and in other matters controlled by the government. According to HRC, Tamils also experienced discrimination in housing."


So the above justifies my point. I don't really know why people would try to sensor the truth. Watchdogb 23:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


Also I do not understand the bolding of text. What is the point of bolding the text ? This fully defeates the purpose of wikipedia trying to continue a NPOV view. The reader is not stupid, they can decide what is important and what is not.

[edit] State Department

I will only concern myself with the blatant blanking of the State Department source, in an overt attempt to hide the truth and the skeletons of the Sri Lankan Government's closet. It gives me vague confort in the knowledge that at least peoples are ashamed at what has happened enough to attempt to hide it.

"The U.S State Department has reported that there were cases of unlawful killings by government agents, arbitrary arrest and detention, poor prison conditions, denial of fair public trial, discrimination against minorities, freedom of peaceful assembly and association. The report also pointed out that there were reported cases of denial of freedom of press by the Srilankan government - [1]." - What was removed continously by Users Lahiru_k and Iwazaki. Cited reason was, that there was a perceived contortion of the words of the U.S State Department source.

I then quote from the citation that is provided.

"The emergency regulations, which remained in effect at year's end, permit arrests without warrant and nonaccountable detentions for up to 12 months. The following human rights problems were reported:


  • unlawful killings by government agents
  • high-profile killings by unknown actors
  • politically motivated killings by paramilitary forces and the LTTE
  • disappearances
  • arbitrary arrest and detention
  • torture
  • poor prison conditions
  • denial of fair public trial
  • government corruption and lack of transparency
  • infringement of religious freedom
  • infringement of freedom of movement
  • discrimination against minorities"

From which, I derived my list, that the State Department has stated that the Government has been involed in unlawful killings, politcally motivated killings, disappearances, arbitary arrest and detention, torture, poor prison confitions, denial of fair public trial, copruiton and lack of tranparency, infringment of religous freedom, infringement of freedom of movement and discrimination against minorties".

Some have accused me of being impartialy in my translation of the source, however, this section concerns the GOVERNMENT'S abuses and negligence of Human Rights, so deal with it. Why do you think I did not include "high-profile killings by unkown actors".

I doubt this message will get a reply, seeing as the POV has been pushed and that is all that needs to be done now the article has been protected. --Sharz 04:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] [personal attack removed]

As the headline states, the whole saga was created by one editor, who hates Sinhalese editors(especially me), Sinhalese race and practically anything which has the name Sinhala. I will address each and every issue here..first,

  • 1 Lets see how this editor, tried, hilariously I would say, to give an innocent face to the LTTE

See this diff first, esp see the 3 rd line in the list..LTTE's name do not appear there.But the State government clearly reported, politically motivated killings by paramilitary forces and the LTTE . What!! Original report has the LTTE's name ! Why on earth the editor removed LTTE's name from that line ?? Was he showing his love for LTTE?

  • 2 Why on earth that list is under the GOSL ? US State Department never in their report accused ,GOSL for every thing in the list.In fact they clearly states, There were no confirmed reports of politically motivated killings by the government.Also, LTTE's name clearly appears in the list, and if you wonder who put all these thing under the GOSL, just look at the Diff given in the point 1..Diffs won't lie !
  • 3 Blocking food supply to rebel area can never be consider as a human right violations..Since, LTTE rule those area, isn't it their duty to feed their citizens ? We are having a war here, and I think it's stupid to even think sending supplies to the enemy..BUT all the governments(since 1977) have never stop sending supplies,mainly essential goods, to the LTTE controlled areas.Actually every public worker in those area get their pay-check from the GOSL.. This will do it for now.Much will come later.Iwazaki 会話。討論 10:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
First, please read and conform to WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. Secondly, much of your argument in 3 is original research. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 13:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Are you referring to the Diff I have given ? yes, indeed that was a Personal attack and I should have reported that..But I chose to ignore.Who am I to complain,after all I am just a fool. And the second one is a fact..If we don't send send supplies people will starve to death in the self-proclaimed LTTE territory.So technically, we are the only country who feeds its enemy..I would appreciate it if you can show me a single incident where enemy is fed at the expense of other citizens..Iwazaki 会話。討論 15:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Read WP:CITE; saying "it's a fact" is not enough. And you know full well what the warning against personal attacks was about, given that I had to blank the section heading that I used. I've again emoved the personal attack; if you repeat this sort of thing, I shall block you from editing for twenty-four hours. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 16:37, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Could you please tell me which part of the headline violate WP:civil or WP:NPA..And how about calling people fools, doesn't it violate those policies ? Actually I didn't know there is a policy for not calling bias edits, bias..Iwazaki 会話。討論 17:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

You called the editor biassed. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 22:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Not just calling, I have also shown it here.Iwazaki 会話。討論 00:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Our policy is that you refer to edits, not the editor. Calling the edits biassed is an indirect attack on the editor, and calling the editor biassed is direct; neither is acceptable, but the latter is absolutely ruled out, and can get you blocked from editing. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 07:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
So if the editor is so biassed, what should we do ? Is there a policy to punish or block those editors, who are miserably being biassed ? Plus the editor has called me a fool,sockpuppet and he even say he hates me and other Sri Lankans.. If you can do anything regarding this it will be deeply appreciated. Iwazaki 会話。討論 15:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Mel there seems to be serial violations of some WP policies in Sri Lanka related articles. We need to bring to an end this behavior by strictly sticking to policies. We need to know how to solve this issue so we can bring in decorum of decency in these conversations between essentially volunteers. Thanks RaveenS 14:46, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Wonderful suggestion..How about being an example for others?Iwazaki 会話。討論 15:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed Please help us out here . I personally wanted this to be done but now that we have a chance please take a look. That would be gratly appericiated Watchdogb 19:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Iwazaki, if me calling you a fool several months ago bothers you so much, report me to Wikipedia Admins like you should of before, I know it was wrong to lash out at you, I also apoligise for lashing out, however, you crying about it on every single talk page is becoming increasingly tiresome, I'm ready to take my medicine, Report me if it bothers you so much. As for my alledged bias against all that is Sinhalese, this is not substantiated by me calling you a fool, or me attacking your view point, simply because, the vast majority of Sinhalese do not agree with you. The Vast majority of Sinhalese do not hate Tamils, nor do they want to continue with an unprofitable wasteful war, The vast majority of the Sinhalese people, do NOT agree with you. I comment upon the Government of Sri Lanka, a government that the U.N has stated, is second only to the regime of Saddam Hussein in the amount of disappeared peoples. --Sharz 04:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the apologies and continuous attack on me !

  • the vast majority of Sinhalese do not agree with you : Who are they and what they disagree?
  • Vast majority of Sinhalese do not hate Tamils, No they don't..Thats why STF even protecting tamil political leaders.And thats why tamils prefer to live in colombo with Sinhalese
  • nor do they want to continue with an unprofitable wasteful war..BUT LTTE wants it..Should we let them to run a mock and destroy our country ?
  • a government that the U.N has stated, is second only to the regime of Saddam Hussein in the amount of disappeared peoples ..Three factual errors in this statement.
1 SL has many governments, because its a democratic country unlike Iraq
2 UN has never said such a thing..Disappearance must be high and LTTE is definitely a culprit of this
3 In Iraq there were no terrorists, BUT in SL we have an terrorist organization which has carried out more suicide attacks on civilians than all the other terrorists organizations in the world put together.On short note, I didn't want you to get blocked,hence I preferred not to make a complain..After all, we need someone to revert vandalism at the Sydney boy's high school article, don't we? Iwazaki 会話。討論 09:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I also do not understand why you throw flames at LTTE and "Their supporters" in every single argument. Even if it does not relate to the topic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Watchdogb (talk • contribs) 14:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC).
In Iwazaki's defence, I did go off-topic by discussing matters of Wiki policy and the issues that plague Sri Lanka on this page, and hence, his reply would most obviously have to be off-topic too. --Sharz 14:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Supply of essential goods to North and East

Few minutes of google search led to the finding of following links.They Give a clear picture of the actual situation.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]Iwazaki 会話。討論 17:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


"The Sri Lankan government claimed Thursday that there was no shortage of food"... They actually give a clear picture of what the SL Govt says, not the actual situation. This is just what they claim. Thusiyan 00:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Censor of wiki

Iwazaki I am sorry but you got everything wrong here. You tried to censor wikipedia and thats the end of the fact. Its not abut Sarz's edit its about what I edited. What you did is just take off my well cited paragraph. This is the whole problem. As you can see above I have justified why I wrote what the sentence and why that belongs in wiki. Then Sharz came along and reverted your edit. Why did he do that ? Simple he stuck with wiki rules. Then after that he justtified why he reverted your edit. Your point about feeding your enemy is not correct. The people in the north and east who are under the control of LTTE are not supposed to be fed by srilanka ? Why ? Last time I checked those parts are also a part of Srilanka so it is therefore the governments responsilibity to feed them no matter what language or religion they are. It might be true that the LTTE were and are running a quazi-indepandent defacto state but that does not mean that those people are not Srilankans. If Eelam is indepandant from srilanka then it would make sense that it is not the responsibility of the government of Srilanka to feed those people but as it stands now it is not. Watchdogb 22:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Did I ? Well, I don't think so..That paragraph DO not say GOSL is responsible, so why on earth we should have it under the abuses by the government section ? Also, most of the accusations are already documented under the GOSL and LTTE sections.Hence we do not need to repeat it again..Got it ? And for the taking responsibility sending food supplies to LTTE control areas, well as a human I don't won't anyone to die from malnutrition..BUT , we have a war and I am not sure how that going to help us to win the war..Could you please show me a single incident where enemy is fed by any government in the world ..Does India send food supplies to areas controlled by Kashmir Islamic armies ? Did the USA send food supplies to AL-Qaeda areas when they were trying to kick them out of Afganistan ? Did the USA send food supplies to Iraqi leader when they were invading Iraq ?? No one did, because that doesn't make any sense !! BUT, GOSL even now continue to send food supplies to the LTTE control areas !!Iwazaki 会話。討論 00:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


Again my paragraph is written somewhat under LTTE abuses. The State government CLEARLY said that the Police and army and such are responsible for such problems as I have written at very top. Please take a look at that and if you still do not think so then mabe we can have a vote here while the admin is present. Now listen to what I have to say here. Take note that the north and east under LTTE control is still srilanka. So its srilanka's responsiblity to feed the places. Remember Tamils are also srilankans. America didn't have to feed the AL-Qaeda areas because they did not impose any blockage on the major routes. Also it is not a part of USA so they are not responsible to feed them. Does India send food supplies to areas controlled by Kashmir Islamic armies? well I don't know but India did not put any blockade on the major food supply routes. So if we are going to add some part saying that SL government is abusing the HR of Tamils by blocking highways then we should put some credible reference to that claim. If the NPOV orginizations say its so then it can and will belong in wikipedia. Watchdogb 01:19, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry some of your sentences do not make any sense to me..You say,Again my paragraph is written somewhat under LTTE abuses, What paragraph are you talking about ?? Most of the abuses under the LTTE were put by I and and other editors..You say, The State government CLEARLY said that the Police and army , I don't think you have read the article properly..State government says some sections of the Army NOT the whole army(nor any force in that case) is responsible..And it clearly says GOSL do not support those actions.And we already have those criticism in the article, why should be make it a chorus and repeat over and over ? So you can't show me a single incident where enemy if fed by a government ? And your comments such as America didn't have to feed the AL-Qaeda areas because they did not impose any blockage sounds how naive you are about the real world, or should I say you are showing your lack of knowledge in world affairs? I will make it lot easier for you, can you show me one incident where the Indian government sent food supplies to the Kashmir's enemy territory ? Iwazaki 会話。討論 03:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Iwazaki, you still seem unable to understand our policies: you cannot appeal to your superior knowledge of the way the world — Wikipedia demands verifiable sources for what is said in articles. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 07:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
evidence are already given.SO, I think we can rest the case now.Iwazaki 会話。討論 15:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I am going to make this clear the last time. You seem to agree that what I wrote is correct but is under the wrong heading (Government of Sri Lanka). So are we going to make this difficult on everyone including the reader (for who we edit wikipedia) and divid everything into different pages/titles ? It is a best compromise that we put it under the government of srilanka because otherwise we will have to make "abuses by certain people in the Srilankan army" and "Abuses by certain people in the Srilankan Police force". Then we should again remain in the NPOV stance and have catogory saying "Abuses by certain people in the LTTE cadres". I am wondering how you could argue that the LTTE as a whole (and not its cadres) is resposible to these HR violations ? All the reference given does not say that they have proper proof that the high command of LTTE is asking these Cadres to do these violations ? Even the state departnment does not say that but they point out that the LTTE (I am sure they mean the Cadres) have committed these violations. Since we added the violations under LTTE as a whole (remember they have a intelligence wing, peace secretaries wing and ect.) we should again add the violations under the Srilankan Governments part.
I do not want to keep arguing with you about the food supply. All I will say is that it is allowed in wikipedia to write that the srilankan government is violating the human rights by not providing food to the rebel controlled areas if we can provide a neutral source. It does not matter if other articles (for example about India) has these violations. As long as there is a reference then we can write that into Wikipedia. Watchdogb 14:41, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
While re-assuring you will make this clear, once again you have failed to give any substantial reason thus making no sense again !! Its now becoming bit comical and I am not sure whether to take your replies seriously after this..US state department accuses some people in the army and navy,The whole LTTE, and you seems to want to have it under the GOSL..And I am sure later, you would say even all the suicide bombings,mass murders by LTTE should also be under the GOSL section!! Even though I admit you have a fair good knowledge of the LTTE, some of your remarks made me(and very well the others too) speechless !! I didn't know LTTE cadres take law to their hand and kill people..ALL we know there is an undisputed leader, who they call Prime minister and President of tamil eelam, who posses the all mighty power..What ever the wing, they have they are all terrorist , rightfully so..While congratulating you for being the first person to accuse individual LTTE cadres for murders,suicides etc,(I wonder prabha is reading this discussion !!?) , I would kindly ask you to take your bloopers to somewhere else.Have a nice day!Iwazaki 会話。討論 15:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


I agree as long as it is coming from WP:RS then it can and should be under Sri Lanka sub section. Thanks RaveenS 14:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Nope..I have given links already about the continuous food supply to the east and north..Even if there are shortages,those are due to the war and GOSL should not be responsible for those..If anything we can add that under the LTTE,since they have failed to feed people live in their territory.period.Iwazaki 会話。討論 15:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Iwazaki I would once again ask you not to attack me and say that I try to justify LTTE or even try to vandalize wiki. This as mentioned is an attack towards a fellow wikipedian and you should also not try to say that I am a joke (as you imply). As I said above there is clear evidence saying that the amry did do it (ok some people of the army). So then you should have AGF and made a subsection and put my edit under that. However, you did not. What you did is that you totally removed it and not to mention you have, by removing the paragraph, made my time spend on the article a waste. What was your point of saying LTTE cadres not taking law into their own hands ? Are they not human ? do they not get angry or fraustrated ? What proof is there that the highest command issued these orders ? The US dept did not say that these Massacures/HR violations were direct orders from supreme commanders of the LTTE. As I said , I am not trying to misdirect the reader, I am just trying to make it easier for the reader. Honestly I believe if we were to create different sections on "Some Army personnel" and "some police personnel" there will be more debates and reverts on this article. It would be best to compromize and have it under both.
"Nope..I have given links already about the continuous food supply to the east and north" so what is the point ? If we can find RS that says its not so then we can add it. I am not implying that it does but I am mearly saying if we can find such then we can write as such. Thanks Watchdogb 17:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure, you are in the right place ? Nothing you said above make sense to me,honestly ! Nothing you said above do not even slightly justified having that section under the government, unless of course you come with another logic, saying since LTTE cadres are citizens of Sri Lankna ,every murder carried out by them should be listed under the government !! then it would make a little sense,at least ! And I don't think I have reiterate my position again,Sending essential food supplies has never stopped, if there are any problems, those are all due to the terrorists who rule those part of the country,and those criticism should be under the LTTE section.many thanks.Iwazaki 会話。討論 09:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Obviously you don't want to understand. Then thats a whole different problem. Since I have again and again justified that I have written the para with proper citation it should have stayed. Even if you felt it was in the wrong plalce you could have WP:AGF and moved it to a different subsection OR reworded it so that it reflects what is proper (according to you). Watchdogb 13:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Iwazaki please do not attack me. I do not welcome your coment "Are you sure, you are in the right place". This is the second time you have attacked my here and I would again ask you to kindly stop. Thanks Watchdogb 17:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Please stop telling stories.Kids make them, not adults like us.I have every right to question your remarks here, which I believe are way below par.Unless, you bring some thing substantial, I am not going to waste my time replying you here.Till then, cheerio.Iwazaki 会話。討論 17:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
You questioning my remark is not the problem. Insulting me is wrong and thats what I said above. In conclusion the paragraph should stay? why shouldn't it ? Because its under the wrong place ? Then I guess we should get rid of the LTTE section as it was done by the cadres and no one has proof that it was direct orders from their superrior. Watchdogb 17:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)