Wikipedia:Huggle/Feedback/Archive 1

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WP:AIV Reports

Whilst using Huggle, I've noticed that it sometimes reports a user after they've been warned only once or twice. Why does this occur? Seraphim♥ Whipp 15:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I haven't noticed that, but in general, I think it would be a good idea for Huggle to ask for confirmation before reporting to AIV instead of doing it automatically. -- BlastOButter42 See Hear Speak 23:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
You can configure it to do that. · AndonicO Hail! 19:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

More than one warning after the user's last edit

These comments are based on my limited understanding of how Huggle works, and may be mistaken. I hope these comments are useful for improving Huggle to help provide a friendlier and fairer experience for patrollees.

"...huggle will check the user's talk page for existing warnings and issue one with an appropriate level." The problem here is that apparently Huggle will issue a warning (e.g. "final warning") even if the previous warning on the user's talk page was after the edit in question, or even after the user's last edit.

For example, suppose a user vandalises 3 pages, then afterwards someone reverts one of the pages and warns the user about vandalism. Then a Huggle user comes along, sees one of the other instances of vandalism from the user from a few minutes earlier, and clicks "revert and warn". Apparently Huggle will automatically issue an escalating warning. And then the same Huggle user or another one might issue an even higher level of warning about the 3rd instance of vandalism. So the user experiences vandalising 3 times without receiving any warnings during the vandalism, then afterwards receiving 3 consecutive escalating warnings and perhaps being reported to AIV. In effect, the warnings are not given time to function as warnings.

Huggle should therefore either display (all or part of) the user's talk page so that the Huggle user can judge whether a warning would be appropriate at that time, or (perhaps better) automatically check the time on the previous warning received by the user, and not issue any warning if the previous warning is in the same minute as or after the edit currently being reverted. (Possibly also not if the previous warning was only one minute (or n minutes for some small number n) before the edit currently being reverted, as the user may have begun editing before receiving the previous warning.)

Otherwise, Huggle is (apparently) strongly encouraging users to post inappropriate warnings. Users need to take responsibility for their edits, whether done manually or with an automated tool such as Huggle. When making a decision to use a tool such as Huggle, users need to be aware of the possible consequences for their patrollees.

Additional suggestions for Huggle developer(s): rather than simply encouraging users to click "next diff" for non-vandalism edits, I suggest that an option be provided ("welcome and next") to post a welcome template on the user's talk page, especially for cases of non-vandalism edits where the user's talk page has no history, and perhaps also where the user's talk page history is short and seems to contain no welcome template (e.g. the word "welcome" doesn't appear in any of the edit summaries?). Another idea is to allow Huggle to be configured so that when warning a user who apparently has never received a welcome template, Huggle will post a welcome template in addition to the warning. The welcome templates include important information about how to contribute positively to Wikipedia. --Coppertwig (talk) 13:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I guess I should have provided diffs. Short version: Scarian attributes these warnings to Huggle: this warning about this edit at 14:29, although the user had already received another warning at 14:51; and this warning about this edit at 14:51 although the user had already received a warning at 14:52 (all on Feb. 14, 2008).
A longer version of the same story is here, the first post being the most relevant: me to Scarian , Scarian's reply to me , my reply to Scarian. It may be worth noting that I had almost posted critical comments on Scarian's RfA about the inappropriate warnings. --Coppertwig (talk) 14:55, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
The only Huggle comments I saw there were from Pedro. Enigma msg! 14:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Huggle edit summaries

I think it's standard practice for programs like this that the edit summaries would include a mention like "using Huggle". Is this the default? I think it's important to let people know what program is being used. The Huggle edits I'm aware of didn't mention anything about Huggle in the edit summaries. --Coppertwig (talk) 13:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

That's cause it uses Rollback (if possible), not like other programs that do the edit manually. -- BlastOButter42 See Hear Speak 20:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
No it isn't, you can in fact add an edit summary to a rollback. Gurch simply didn't think it was right to advertise in edit summaries. Prodego talk 20:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
You can make custom edit summaries with Huggle, but I don't think there's any way to change the automatic one. You can only choose to type your own for each revert (the purple fifth button from the left). Equazcion •✗/C • 12:36, 11 Mar 2008 (UTC)

Warnings

I think Huggle should ask for confirmation if the user/IP has been warned in the last minute or so - a few times I've warned a user after someone else has, for the same edit. WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN aka john lennon 20:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

In the same kind of area. There is a limit that you can't warn someone that has been warned in the last miniute. I think this should be removed or it should be able to be changed in the config as there are many of my warns that dont get added because of this. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 19:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
See my comment above under "More than one warning after the user's last edit". It needs to be not only configurable, but also smarter: it's not how much time has passed since the last warning that's the key, but whether the last warning came before or after the edit you're currently warning about. Does anybody know if this has been changed since Feb. 14, when I believe it was (inappropriately) giving warnings even if the user had already received a warning that came after the edit being warned about? --Coppertwig (talk) 23:11, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Distribution?

The author appears to be MIA. It's a shame that distribution of such a valuable tool has to halt because of this. Would it be improper for a couple of its current users to start taking over some careful distribution? Perhaps we could start a public page where users can nominate themselves, like there is for VandalProof etc, and current Huggle users can patrol it/accept people/send it out. We could lay out some simple criteria for acceptance, which could be as simple as possession of the rollback function. Thoughts? Equazcion •✗/C • 12:47, 4 Mar 2008 (UTC)

Eh I'm just gonna do it. If anyone has any issue with this lemme know. I'll post a link soon. Equazcion •✗/C • 12:58, 4 Mar 2008 (UTC)
Do you have the source code? If you're going to be distributing it, will you take responsibility for fixing problems with it, including those I raise in the sections More than one warning after the user's last edit and Huggle edit summaries above? I might like to look at the source code myself. I might (or might not) be able to make useful changes. --Coppertwig (talk) 13:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
No I don't have the source code, unfortunately. I just have the program file, like everyone else. I'm not distributing on my own, but I thought this could be a group effort. Check out Wikipedia:Huggle/Apply, which I just created. Equazcion •✗/C • 13:16, 4 Mar 2008 (UTC)
Ah, unfortunate. However, even if we can't fix it, we can document it and work around it. I would appreciate it if people would watch Huggle's behaviour and try to verify whether it posts warnings even if the user had already received a warning after the edit being warned about. Perhaps this only happens when there's a backlog (or when Huggle is going after previous edits by an identified vandal) so that Huggle is warning about an edit that's some minutes in the past. The Huggle documentation page can be modified to warn Huggle users about this, and they can correct its errors. --Coppertwig (talk) 13:33, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I also noticed a bug, where the watchlist: config option doesn't work at all. That's relatively minor, but just thought I'd mention it. I haven't had any problems with warnings yet, as far as I'm aware, but perhaps I just haven't encountered that scenario yet. Equazcion •✗/C • 13:37, 4 Mar 2008 (UTC)

Deleting and post-AIV blocking

These are the comments I fed back to Gurch - I haven't heard anything so thought I should post them here for wider discussion, especially as there are a couple of bugs that I noticed...

Thought I'd better feed back! The first thing to say is that this is an astonishingly good tool. It's easily the best vandalism fighting tool I've come across, and really is almost perfect. I love the fact that it's lightweight and very quick.

I have noticed a couple of niggly things that you might already be aware of, or might not. The first is that I haven't managed to successfully use the delete button once - the log just reports "deletion failed". It's not a major issue as I can always open the article in my browser and carry out the deletion there.

The second thing is around the algorithm for blocking a user who has vandalised after a final warning. This works fine if the vandal hasn't been reported to AIV, but if they have, it won't try to block them - even though I'm an admin so whether or not they're listed at AIV doesn't really matter. It's probably just a case of doing the right things but not quite in the right order - Huggle doesn't need to check AIV if the user is an admin.

I hope that's helpful. Congratulations on building a brilliant tool, I'm very, very impressed.

Waggers (talk) 12:53, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree – although I haven't used it myself, it looks wonderful. Very useful for the people who use it and for the project as a whole, with perhaps just a few things that need to be fixed in it. I commend Gurch (whom I assume wrote it) for creating a great tool. --Coppertwig (talk) 13:08, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Is Gurch coming back? If not, can you ask him if he would consider releasing the source code? Perhaps it could go onto Sourceforge or similar if he would be agreeable. --kingboyk (talk) 13:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I want to Hug Huggle

For being so amazing. However, Huggle won't work for me today. Anyone else having problems? Enigma msg! 18:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

It isn't working for me either. I wonder what happened?--Dycedarg ж 19:00, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
No idea. I restarted my computer and came back, and it appears to be working again. Enigma msg! 19:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I didn't even restart my computer, and it randomly started working again. Strange. I suppose that's what we get for using beta software. I find it weird though that it stopped working for both of us, and then started again, roughly in the same time frame. Is there some universal configuration page it uses that could have been monkeyed with?--Dycedarg ж 19:18, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, restarting my computer had nothing to do with it. It was obviously something that happened to the Huggle software and somehow corrected itself. Enigma msg! 20:24, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I had the same problem at the same time ;) Wikipedia was loading very slowly for me though at the same time, so I wounder if it was a Wikipedia end problem? Tiddly-Tom 07:15, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Blocking huggle

Per User:Enigmaman's excellent suggestion, I added instructions for blocking users from using huggle. Equazcion •✗/C • 02:17, 5 Mar 2008 (UTC)

Actually, krimpet (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves • rights) invented that. ;) · AndonicO Hail! 13:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah. Well... Enigmaman still gets credit for uh... noticing :) Equazcion •✗/C • 18:41, 5 Mar 2008 (UTC)
Should we call it plagiarism? ;) · AndonicO Hail! 18:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I still win. When I thought it up, I had never seen anyone use it or even suggest it as a solution, so as I told Andon, in the WP:VAIN vein, I'm giving myself a virtual virtual barnstar (yes, double usage was intentional). :D Enigma msg! 18:56, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
As far as I know, all barnstars are virtual... · AndonicO Hail! 18:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
...but not "virtual virtual". ;) Equazcion •✗/C • 19:00, 5 Mar 2008 (UTC)
Exactly! At least someone here gets me. :) Enigma msg! 19:02, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

New error message (for me)

"Huggle has had an unhandled exception and will have to quit". I had some trouble with it today. It was lagging and taking a lot of time to move to the next edit, and after a few minutes, it shut itself down. Enigma msg! 17:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

A typo

I know User:Gurch is the only one that can fix it right now, and he's not returning messages, but I noticed a typo:

"Note: this user has only recieved one recent warning (level 4im)"

that was a note left by Huggle on AIV. The word is received. Enigma msg! 05:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

User Blanked

For when Gurch returns, it would be useful if Huggle checked the page history against the person who blanked the page. If it is the same person, and there have not been many other edits by others, then it asked if you want to tag for speedy instead of reverting as vandalism. Just an idea ^.^ Tiddly-Tom 06:55, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

How should Huggle warn recently blocked users? - possible error?

This user: 65.183.69.212 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) was blocked on 29th February for 48 hours for repeated vandalism to Lewis Howard Latimer, and on the user's return on 5th March he/she vandalised the same page. What sort of warning should Huggle give on these sorts of situations, where a user has recently returned from a block? The IP only received a level one warning, should it have received a higher level? Regards, EJF (talk) 19:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

If it were manual, I'd skip straight to level 3 or 4, but huggle is programmed to start over again at 2, I believe. Also, sometimes it reports them if they've been blocked (even if they don't have the level 4 yet; I'm not sure in what cases it does this though). · AndonicO Hail! 19:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
I usually go straight back to AIV, if the vandalism is among the first edits since release of the block, and close enough time-wise to release of the block. I think it should depend on that, how close the vandalism is to release of the block. Probably a more complex calculation than any of the anti-vandal tools currently perform, but it would be the best way, in my opinion. Equazcion •✗/C • 00:30, 8 Mar 2008 (UTC)
As an admin, I'd be inclined to remove any report from AIV where the user hasn't been warned for a few days. So if they're returning from a 48 hour block and start vandalising, please warn them - the "only warning" template is good for such situations. Waggers (talk) 16:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Cannot login?

Every time I try to use huggle, during login it fails to obtain a cookie and instead asks to "check internet connection and availability of Wikipedia", even though I'm obviously on the interent. Why? Will (talk) 16:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Good question... wish I had an answer for you. Perhaps you have a firewall interfering? Equazcion •✗/C • 12:34, 11 Mar 2008 (UTC)
This didn't happen to me with 0.6.3, but it happened to me with the newest version of Huggle that Gurch just sent. Enigma msg! 00:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

"Huggle"

A user named "Huggle" has arrived, changing things back to the way they were prior to the "Apply" page, and telling people to email him in order to obtain the program instead. This user, as far as I can tell, hasn't made any attempt to communicate their intentions with anyone, and I'd find it pretty hard to believe that it was Gurch returning under a different name. I'm therefore reverting all changes. If anyone has any new information on this please let me know. Thanks. Equazcion •✗/C • 22:44, 11 Mar 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it just showed up on my watchlist. I'm not sure. Never heard of user Huggle before. Check here and here. Seems to be someone who at least knows Gurch, although showing up and making wholesale changes without at least posting a message first is...a little weird. Enigma msg! 22:49, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure it is Gurch. He has used that account to test Huggle in the past I think. EJF (talk) 22:54, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Why don't you email the user to find out, rather than revert en masse? GracenotesT § 22:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
(ec)I'm not so sure, only because he's being so weird and rude about it. See my talk page. I've seen this account before too but I've never actually seen any evidence it was his. Equazcion •✗/C • 22:56, 11 Mar 2008 (UTC)
If you look here it must be him. EJF (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

This is Gurch, as you will note from the coincident timing of him releasing a new version of the software and trying to update the documentation accordingly (but being reverted). Now, if you would all care to stop reverting him and let him actually get on with things that would be rather useful. Will (aka Wimt) 23:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I have a question: Why didn't Gurch simply say who it was before making sweeping changes? Enigma msg! 23:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
(ec) His claim is that he's Gurch. I think it's someone who got the source code and is attempting to "take over", not that that would necessarily be a bad thing since he would've had to get the code form Gurch. However the way he's going about this is rude and pretty strange. I'd like a little more explanation and confirmation before accepting this. Equazcion •✗/C • 23:03, 11 Mar 2008 (UTC)
My thoughts exactly, Enigma. I've emailed him to ask for an explanation. Let's see what happens. Equazcion •✗/C • 23:04, 11 Mar 2008 (UTC)
I have spoken to him - it is gurch - also note the talk page history if you don't believe my word. Will (aka Wimt) 23:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
What about Gurch is not strange or rude,..that's how Gurchy works :P ..--Cometstyles 23:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Quite right, looking at Special:Contributions/Huggle I'm entirely convinced - if not I should be perma-banned. He probably wants to work alone in peace. EJF (talk) 23:09, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I requested Huggle to log in from the Gurch account and make a declaration of the alternate account. That should put this to rest. Equazcion •✗/C • 23:11, 11 Mar 2008 (UTC)

Yep, it's Gurch!

Some typical Gurch humour, I'm in stitches! [1] - that's him all right! EJF (talk) 23:21, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Version 0.7.1?

When I started Huggle today, I got a message saying that the current version I have, 0.6.3., is old and the new version is 0.7.1. How do I get this new version? Captain panda 21:30, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Gurch should have mailed it to you. Snowolf How can I help? 22:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I checked my e-mail archives and I don't see it. Can Gurch or someone else send to me, please? Captain panda 01:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll send it to you. What happened was that the people who got Huggle through Huggle Apply are not on Gurch's e-mail list, so they're not getting the updated version. I guess try e-mailing Gurch to get on his list. For now, I'll take care of the rest of the people approved through Huggle Apply (I started sending the updated version out yesterday, and I'll finish it today). Enigma msg! 01:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, e-mailed everyone who got it through Huggle Apply. Enigma msg! 01:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

New version unstable?

Is anybody else having problems with the new version? It crashes on me quite frequently between making a revert and warning the user. I haven't (yet) noticed any pattern as to why it crashes sometimes and not others. Waggers (talk) 14:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I have the same problem. Crashes every three minutes or so. Still a great tool, though. --Abrech (talk) 19:54, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
fixed in 0.7.2 Huggle (talk) 22:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
That was quick! Good stuff. Waggers (talk) 15:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

.0.7

I noticed that ever since I got 0.7.1 (and now on 0.7.2), it doesn't update the whitelist when I quit. Is this intended? Thanks, Enigma msg! 22:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

It only updates the whitelist if it needs to change it. Almost all active users with 500 edits are now listed there, so few changes are needed Huggle (talk) 23:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I used to be able to see how many times I use Huggle by looking at the whitelist. Now I'm never listed there anymore. :( Enigma msg! 20:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
There is something legitimately wrong. It NEVER updates the whitelist, while it does for others at least some of the time. Not a big deal, but I guess it won't work properly on my computer. I use Huggle basically every day, and it has never updated the whitelist (since I updated). Enigma msg! 16:40, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Are you sure? Try unignoring yourself and then ignoring yourself again, then closing the program Huggle (talk) 18:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I know how to ignore, but not how to unignore. How would I do this? Also, would there be a way for you to exclude sandbox pages somehow? I just accidentally reverted on Sandbox. :( Enigma msg Review 06:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
The "ignore" button turns into an "unignore" button if you ignore the user. Sandbox pages don't appear in the edit queue, as far as I know (though it is still possible to get there in some other way), which sandbox page was this? – Gurchzilla 21:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Source

Any chance of the source? Also if Gurch is emailing updates to all the users, wouldn't it be easier to create a mailing list? He would still be able to control who subscribes --Chris 04:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Gurch is not releasing the source - for the second part, it might be - but that is Gurch's choice. --The Helpful One (Review) 20:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Damn, it'd nice to play around with --Chris 07:56, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Might be worth try to ask him anyway. Snowolf How can I help? 15:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Obtaining

Anyone know if there's another way to obtain this wonderful tool? I wrote a brief email a while ago to the address listed, but I never receieved anything back. If it is taken into account, I have 629 edits at the time of writing this. Celarnor Talk to me 07:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Try emailing him by clicking here again, maybe Gurch missed it/he could be on holiday. Tiddly-Tom 12:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, Gurch shut down Huggle Apply, lol. Only way to get it is by e-mailing him. Enigma msg! 15:09, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

What does it do and how does it work?

It would be nice to have a (link to a) short section about what Huggle does and how it does it at the main page. It's a bit of a struggle finding that info if you're not familiar with it. SkyLined (talk) 12:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure a fuller description will be made available once the tool is out of Beta (unless of course the plan is to maintain perpetual beta!) Waggers (talk) 12:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Huggle is an application for dealing with vandalism. It displays revisions that might be vandalism, and allows reversion of said revisions. It issues warnings and vandalism reports based on these reversions Huggle (talk) 13:24, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Let me rephrase: I was looking for is something along the lines of "Huggle is an application for dealing with vandalism. It monitors/checks/detects (what does it actually check?) by (how does it perform checks?) to be able to (what does it do by itself)". Or "Huggle can be used to gather and display (what information does it provide the end user?) and allows you to (what does it allow the end user to do?). As such, it makes life easier because (what does it allow the end user to do that would be harder/impossible without it)". Would it be possible to create something like that for Huggle? Thanks SkyLined (talk) 16:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Obviously I can't provide the technical details, but Huggle has certain criteria for edits that may be vandalism. These are displayed to the end user, and the user has the option of reverting and warning, reporting to AIV, just reverting, etc. It filters new edits to Wikipedia by editors with less than 500 edits (users with more than 500 edits are added to the whitelist and Huggle ignores them). Enigma msg! 17:25, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that is more like it - If somebody could put something that on the main page of Huggle, it would explain what it does to anybody that happens upon the page (either out of curiousity or because he/she is looking for a specific tool) making it more accessible to people not familiar with it. SkyLined (talk) 18:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Huggle 0.7.3

I notice that in the new Huggle I am unable to revert edits with a custom summary, as clicking the "OK" button after writing the revert summary has no effect; has anyone else noticed this? EJF (talk) 12:26, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep, I noticed the same thing. However, Gurch is amazingly quick to fix bugs like this so I've no doubt that he'll release an update. Seraphim♥ Whipp 00:23, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Came across it on Doctor Who last night. Sceptre (talk) 01:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Also, can someone please send me a e-mail of 0.7.3.? I haven't received one yet. Captain panda 03:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll send it now. Enigma message 03:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. I have it. Captain panda 03:17, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
.7.4 just released. Enigmaman (talk) 01:41, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Is this the bug report page?

Should bug and pecularity reports be submitted here, or emailed to Gurch? I've emailed a few things that I came across last night, but I don't know if his spam filter is catching everything, of it he routinely doesn't respond to email. Loren.wilton (talk) 03:56, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I've been posting stuff here. Enigma message 04:01, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I believe Wikipedia:Huggle/Complaints is where they're supposed to go.--Dycedarg ж 04:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Mac

Any chance of a Mac OS X version of this magnificent application? I'd be very appreciate if someone could adapt an OS X version... -- Anonymous DissidentTalk 05:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Its has the same limitations to that of AWB - the .NET Framework. However, for AWB people have managed to get it work with WINE/mono/something on the mac.. Cant remember who, but i know its been done. —Reedy 09:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah but with mono you need to recompile on the platform you want use it on don't you? and we don't have the source(see above) --Chris 09:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Nope... Mono is just a linux/unix port/version of the .NET framework... —Reedy 13:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

0.7.4

Has this been sent out yet or is it still in testing, if it has been sent out, I have not got it :P Tiddly-Tom 13:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It was sent out last night. E-mail me and I'll reply with it attached. Enigma message 13:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Done, thanks :) Tiddly-Tom 13:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
It was sent out earlier to everyone who needed the most recent release. Anyway, Gurch, quite a style overhaul. I was taken aback. Looks sleek, like the redesigns they do to cars every few years. Cheers, Enigma msg Review 06:32, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I put the commands into toolbars, instead of using ordinary buttons for everything, following a feature request along those lines. .NET provides two modes for rendering toolbars; one which is similar to that used in Microsoft Office, and the one used by the operating system. Huggle uses the former because I think it is easier to see which item is selected; the latter, at least when using "classic" or Windows XP themes (I don't have Vista) is not so clear – Gurchzilla 12:05, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Security Warning

How come on 0.7.4 I get a warning from Vista, but not on any of the others? Tiddly-Tom 08:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

What sort of warning? Have you changed any Windows settings recently? If you are using the IRC recent changes feed then it needs IRC access on (by default) port 6667 in addition to HTTP access, which might generate such a warning; it is usable without IRC but slower. It doesn't read from or write to any local files, so I can't think of anything else that would cause it – Gurchzilla 12:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
The publisher could not be verified. Are you sure you want to run this software? and at the bottom The file does not have a valid digital signature that verifies its publisher. It gives me the options of run or cancel. I can still open previous versions without this box.
I have just tried to get it from the email and I can open Huggle while it is in the zip, but if I try to unzip it it gives me an unspecified error. I have never had this problem before. Tiddly-Tom 17:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Trying it with some other open windows closed made it unzip! Strange... Tiddly-Tom 17:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
That would be because there is no publisher, there is only me, and if Microsoft doesn't like the fact that I don't digitally sign my executables that's their problem – Gurchzilla 19:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Is this still being distributed?

I requested Huggle by email about a week ago, and I have yet to get a response. I've also tried asking this on the IRC but no one answered me. :( —Catz [T • C] 23:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

As near as I can tell he will add you to the list when he gets an email from you, and the next time he sends out a beta release you will get it. He doesn't seem to otherwise respond to or use email, at least in my limited experience. Loren.wilton (talk) 04:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I got it the first day I sent for it. I'm not sure if this is allowed but if so I would be happy to send it to you.--Urban Rose 15:37, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I didn't get a respose either. Have been waiting for 2 days now. Cambrasa 21:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

To be honest 2 days isn't that long. Gurch isn't on Wikipedia everyday and has been getting on with a bit of real life for a bit :). He is still sending out huggle to those that request it so just wait :). If you need any more help just ask. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 19:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested about a week ago, just got it today. Voyaging(talk) 19:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

How does distribution work?

I sent an e-mail today. I noticed that some people have complained that they didn't receive answers, even if they were approved. Can anyone shed some light on this, including the average wait time, and what to do if I never get a reply? --Aremith Talk 05:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I haven't got a mail back either, seems to take some time. --Kanonkas :  Take Contact  15:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Gurch will still be E-mailing them out but it takes some time. He isn't online 24/7 but if you fit the criteria and stuff you will get it eventually :). If you need anymore help just ask. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 19:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Requested about a week ago, just got it through e-mail today. Voyaging(talk) 19:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Yep gurch logged on today and sent out the new version to everyone as well. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 20:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I finally got mine. However, I'm having trouble logging in. Useight (talk) 00:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I emailed about 2 months ago, never got a response. Eventually I got it from another user. Celarnor Talk to me 00:27, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Celarnor the problem is if you got it from another user firstly gurch doesnt know you have got it and also you are not on the mailing list so you wont get newer versions. e.g. a new one was sent out today. Try to send another e-mail and see what happens. Also if you are having trouble logging in with the irc feed then try using recent changes. If that fails report it back here again. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 06:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, at least I have something, even if it is an earlier version; and I've sent three emails via emailuser, one of which was a few days back, still haven't got anything in return. I'm just saying, if the regular distribution system doesn't seem to function for you, there's always that black market-esque option. Celarnor Talk to me 06:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Latest version was distributed today, or at least I got a copy today. There were pretty big changes from the last version, so I cna see why it took a while. I suspect that if you are on the list you should see a version in the next day or so, at a complete guess. Loren.wilton (talk) 06:40, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Well Celarnor did you make sure you sent the e-mail to the user "huggle" and not gurch? ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 13:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I've also mailed "Huggle" without any luck, I belive it's soon 3 weeks since I gave him that e-mail. --Kanonkas :  Take Contact  12:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Try sending it again. Are you sure your spam filter did not block the reply? (if, for example, it discards attachments from unknown sources) Gurch (talk) 12:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Now I got it, thank you Gurch --Kanonkas :  Take Contact  11:28, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Feature request: multiple diffs

I know I shouldn't really be asking for features, but this (in my opinion) would be fantastic... the ability to click & drag on the page history meter in the top right corner to show multiple diffs at once. Thanks —Alex.Muller 17:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean a diff of multiple edits? (Showing several diffs at once would be difficult). Also note that you can right-click on a revision in the history display to compare it to the current revision Gurch (talk) 00:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Exactly, a diff of multiple edits - sorry, that wasn't clear. And actually, I had no idea about right-clicking on a revision, this makes me incredibly happy :D —Alex.Muller 10:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see a way to get something much like the standard page history displayed, where I can see who made the recent revisions and when they were made. I guess I'm not as comfortable as I should be with the current interface for choosing revisions, but in any complex case I find myself opening the article in a browser, examining the history page, and then reverting manually to the chosen version. A button to display the history (like the button to display the current page) would be sufficient, except that I would want to be able to use the radio buttons in the displayed window to select a diff to view. Loren.wilton (talk) 04:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Hovering over a revision in the history display shows the date/time and summary. The colour of the revision icon generally indicates where best to revert to (except for page blankings and the like, trusted users are blue, anonymous users are brown, other users are grey). I can make it say the user name too if that is useful. I find generally when comparing revisions in the history one either wishes to compare two successive revisions (which can be done by left-clicking in the history display) or to compare an old revision with the current one (which can be done by right-clicking) Gurch (talk) 04:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Can't log in

When I try to log in I get a message from Huggle that Wikimedia API has detected in incorrect user name and password. I have tried several times and double-checked that it is correct. What could be the problem? --Cambrasa confab 23:11, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Huggle uses the API to log in rather than the Special:Userlogin interface. If you get the password wrong in an API login request it simply locks you out. Wait about 5 minutes and try again Gurch (talk) 12:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Huggle on Mac

Does anyone have detailed steps on how to use Huggle on a PowerPC (not the newer Intel ones!) Mac using Mac OS X 10.4? E.g. maybe how to set it up using WINE or something?  Atyndall93 | talk  10:18, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Supposedly a virtual PC (vmware or similar) can be used... But a lot slower... Like AWB, it will be good when mono is fully implemented for *nix. —Reedy 11:00, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Awww :-(, I wish the source was available for porting.  Atyndall93 | talk  23:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Minor alignment issue in uw-huggle2

I'm assuming that Huggle inserts its own template code, since Template:uw-huggle2 is just a redirect to Template:uw-vandalism2. The problem I saw was that Huggle's template uses a left-aligned icon, which causes problems with one-line warnings:

warning 2 (Huggle, uses |left)

warning 3 (Regular template, doesn't use |left)

The uw templates don't use left, and I think the huggle templates should do the same to avoid this odd indentation. See [2], [3] for an example where someone else used Huggle (level 2), then I used Twinkle (level 3), resulting in an indented warning. nneonneo talk 22:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

There are some other issues, including alignment of the icon in the block template (which sometimes overlaps the explanatory text) —Alex.Muller 22:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
When I wrote Huggle I copied the code of the existing templates. This has since been changed -- Gurchzilla (talk) 03:34, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

extraneous parenthesis?

Is anyone else getting an extraneous parenthesis at the end of their signature when they warn someone? See this edit, for example. --Ixfd64 (talk) 20:59, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. It only seems to happen for level 2 warning though. All the other ones are fine.--Dycedarg ж 07:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

0.7.2

This edit - Very random. Tiddly-Tom 23:19, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm also getting alot of 'failed to revert/warn' - I'm not sure if this is a software problem or server problem. Tiddly-Tom 23:25, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Although 0.7.2 has some nice features, such as the ability to view warnings the user has received before reporting, and the number of reverts per minute, I find 0.6.3 quicker - so I have gone back to using it :( Tiddly-Tom 18:58, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
All of these problems should be fixed now with the new version. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 19:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Can confirm that the "failed to..." bug is fixed for me with 0.7.5 of the software —αlεx•mullεr 19:58, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Yep thats fixed for me also. Hopfully it will continue to work :). ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 20:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Requests

Two requests for improving the already great tool. First is adding no personal attacks warning. Second is auto loading page history and user contribs, unless this would slow it down too much. Thanks. Tiddly-Tom 18:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, the tool is trying to do everything twice, but failing on the second attempt, thankfully depending on the way you look at it. Tiddly-Tom 18:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I noticed something else.. When you advance a diff, it advanced two in the que! (When you click on the list, the arrow or space bar). I don't know if it does it already, but it would be great if diffs were removed from the que if someone on the white list has edited since the possible vandalism was made. Tiddly-Tom 18:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I've been having similar problems, advancing by two, and doubling actions - so it's not an isolated incident. Stwalkerster [ talk ] 22:11, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Loading history and contributions for every edit would indeed slow things down significantly, as it would triple the number of requests needed to display a revision. They are unneeded in most cases – Gurchzilla 19:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

"Throttling"?

J.delanoy said that when he was reverting edits manually, it "throttled" him for a spamming measure for a while. Is this slowing Huggle down? If so, perhaps a light should be shown at the bottom if Wikipedia is blocking your edits. (I think this only applies to non-admins.) weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 19:01, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Just spent ages trying to find the information about to what extent it is throttled, but could not find it. I know it is throttled, or was when it was implemented at least. Tiddly-Tom 19:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Rollbacks are limited to 5 per minute for non-administrators. Attempting additional rollbacks will return an error message. Huggle detects this and reverts manually instead. Obviously this manual reversion is slower than rollback, however there is no way around this limit. If you believe that rollback for non-administrators should not be rate-limited, contact a devloper. See also bug 12760, which I filed three months ago – Gurchzilla 19:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

7.4 AND 7.5 Issue

I'm having a problem with the newest version of huggle. I was able to use it for two days or so, and now it's telling me I'm unable to log in. I've had this problem once before on a different version. And I posted about it on Gurch's talk [4]. I've done everything I tried last time (as seen in above link). Is there any way to fix this? Dadude3320 23:39, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

0.7.5 has just been sent out. This will hopefully fix your problems. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 19:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
7.5 has done the same thing after just one day. What the hell is wrong with my computer? Dadude3320 16:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Decided to go check out some firewall settings, Seems as if McAfee decided that it was going to block huggle. After changing some settings, Huggle is working fine. Hopefully this will fix it once and for all. Dadude3320 17:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

It reverted Cluebot

I pushed q to revert a page blanking right before ClueBot's edit showed up, and it reverted ClueBot and then promptly crashed at the point where should have left a warning on ClueBot's talk page. I don't know if this is cause for concern or a random bug, but I thought I'd report it here.--Dycedarg ж 01:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

This has also happened to me many times. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 12:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
You can flag it to ignore the user ClueBot . --CanadianLinuxUser (talk) 14:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Cluebot is already in the whitelist so its edits are ignored. What happens is if you click revert and cluebot does it just before you and it starts to loads the diff. Then it reverts cluebot. Just need to be more careull ;p. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 20:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I just reverted VoABot. Perhaps some warning should pop up when attempting to revert an anti-vandalism bot, like: "Are you sure you want to revert Cluebot?".Dadude3320 00:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
The program is already programmed not to revert the bots, or any trusted user for that matter. It will only do so if you push the button right before the bot's edit shows up, which seems to trick the program into thinking that it's reverting the vandal, not the bot. Thus your solution wouldn't help much.--Dycedarg ж 05:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Huggle now prompts for confirmation when reverting a whitelisted user -- Gurchzilla (talk) 17:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Keyboard shortcuts stop working

Keyboard shortcuts, such as Q and spacebar stop working if you click in the viewing diff area. You can only continue by clicking.. Majorly (talk) 22:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I've noticed this too. As a temporary solution, you can get them to start working again by clicking on one of the entries in the little log at the bottom of the screen, which switches the focus back to the Huggle main program instead of the browser window.--Dycedarg ж 23:10, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Dont click on one of the entries. Click on one of the blank boxes to the right of where the logs appear. This way nothing pop up. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 12:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Fail!

When i am reverting using huggle from about 1 hour ago i have been getting errors in the logs. It says (Reverted edits by ...) Then it says (Did not rollback "...). It also does the same thing for the warns. It says (Message re...) and then (Failed to warn...) The reason it comes up with for (Did not rollback "...) is server is unavailable but i know it is as these reverts and warns still appear correctly in my contributions. I really don't have a clue what is happening here and i don't know if it is happening for anyone else either. I have tried restarting huggle e.t.c but nothing seems to work. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 20:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Same with me. I ignore them, but it would be great if Huggle didn't try to rollback everything TWICE. 21655 ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ? 21:20, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I would just like to say that this is fixed in the new version of huggle so it shouldnt be a problem any more. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 19:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Minor problem...

I noticed that when you advance to the next edit, it goes to the next one in the "list" and removes the one after that one from the list... Is this supposed to happen? —Moo [T • C] 02:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I just noticed that today also when i suddently relised i was going through the list to quickly. Maybe this also has something to do with the problem above? ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 11:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
This has now been fixed in the new version of huggle. I hope this helps you in your vandal fighting efforts. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 19:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

IRC feed

My username has a period in it. Because of this, it will not allow me to connect to the IRC Recent Changes feed. I know this is the problem because I just tried connecting from my sock, User:Jdelanoy, and it worked fine. I tried all the available IRC ports by modifying my Huggle.css, and none of them worked. Is there a way you can fix this? J.delanoygabsadds 15:28, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm using the IRC recentchanges feed fine, so it's definitely not a problem with having a period in your name —αlεx•mullεr 18:11, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, like I said, it will connect no problem when I use User:Jdelanoy, but when I use User:J.delanoy, nothing I can do will make it connect. Any ideas why? J.delanoygabsadds 17:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest trying to connect to the server not in huggle and in an irc client. its irc.wikimedia.org and the en wikipedia channel is #en.wikipedia. I hope this helps. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 18:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
How do I do that? I have Windows Vista Home Premium, and it's supposed to have an IRC client built in, but I don't know what it's called. J.delanoygabsadds 13:19, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I dont know what it is either ^^. Try something like Mirc, xchat or if you use mozilla download the chatzilla addon and then go to irc://irc.freenode.com in the address bar. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 15:59, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Unhandled exception

I reverted an edit, and it hadn't warned yet after I had looked at a couple more edits so I clicked on the log at the bottom of the screen to go back to the reverted but not warned edit; it froze for a second, finally issued the warning, and then this popped up:

(snipped ArgumentOutOfRangeException in Main.Status_ItemActivate)

It never went to the edit that I wanted to warn, but since it had issued the warning itself it didn't matter. The program also continued to function after I clicked to ignore the exception.--Dycedarg ж 21:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Which version of huggle is this on? ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 06:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The one that got e-mailed out yesterday, 0.7.5.--Dycedarg ж 18:23, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok. Ill try to tell gurch when i next see him active. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 18:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
This should now be fixed -- Gurchzilla (talk) 17:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's another 'red' dialog box - Need help!

I have been using 0.7.5 for a few days and for hours together with no problems. Today, it has twice given me a dialog box with an error, and options with 'CONTINUE' or 'QUIT', after half an hour of running. I notice that it gives these errors only when Huggle is idle (any connections?) Here's the error details. I have removed a list of loaded assemblies with details of assembly version, win32 version and codebase. Any help possible? Here goes:

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.
                            • Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at huggle.Processing.ProcessNewEdit(Edit Edit)
at huggle.Irc.ProcessIrcEdit(Object EditObject)


                            • Loaded Assemblies **************
(removed to keep message short)
                            • JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.
For example:
<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>
When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.


-Error message ends- Thanks. Prashanthns (talk) 18:44, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Damn null reference exceptions. Will be fixed in the next version if I manage to reproduce it Gurch (talk) 12:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Whatever brings them on, I dont know. Have done a few days now without those errors!Cheers. Prashanthns (talk) 23:05, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Shortcut keys

Dont seem to work for me. Can't hit space all I want, but it wont ever advance to the next in the list. Q T C 00:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind, I guess I'm just an idiot. Q T C 00:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
This just gave me an idea :O. Maybe we should make an FAQ for huggle ^^. ·Add§hore· Talk/Cont 06:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion: Edit summary addition

Shouldn't we have something that is automatically added at the end of all summaries saying like "using huggle" or something like that?--Sunny910910 (talk|Contributions|Guest) 00:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Look at the top of the page under will not change. "Doesn't advertise in edit summaries". Dadude3320 00:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Oops, thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed that until now. So I guess it can't be helped.--Sunny910910 (talk|Contributions|Guest) 02:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Undoing warning to new talk page

A couple of times now, I've had a finger-slip and warned an innocent user. Obviously, I try and undo this as quickly as possible, but if the warning is the only edit on the page, I only have the option of tagging it for speedy deletion. In this circumstance, I tend to prefer to edit the page manually to blank it - is this possible automatically, or likely to become so? Or ought I be tagging for deletion? Pseudomonas(talk) 09:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Upgrade?

How does one upgrade to the newest version of Huggle? --SharkfaceT/C 00:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

You should be emailed new versions periodically by the author — the latest version is, I believe, 0.7.5 which I received on April 22. If you don't think you're on the list, send a note to “huggle” —Alex.Muller 06:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

css conflict with js?

After creating my huggle.css page, I can no longer reliably use popups or twinkle. I can get them to work, but I have to clearbypass my browser's cache every page. Problem did not exist before I created the css page. How do I fix this? (I just noticed I can no longer sign comments with the DarkAudit (talk) 23:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC) button, either.) DarkAudit (talk) 23:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Fixed it with a simple refresh? don't know how or why, but it works now. DarkAudit (talk) 00:25, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The /huggle.css pages don't contain any CSS or JavaScript, nor are they loaded as such by MediaWiki, even if you wanted them to be. (To do that, they have to match the name of a skin, for example /monobook.css). The ".css" extension is used only because that prevents anyone editing the page except you and administrators. Except for that fact it is a normal subpage -- Gurchzilla (talk) 01:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

More tries for incorrect password

I think three tries should be allowed to get the password right, instead of having to wait 5 minutes if you don't get it the first time. Or, a captcha will be helpful. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, that's a MediaWIki API feature and nothing related to huggle itself —Alex.Muller 04:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Its an API feature, see here --Chris 05:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
The API throttle is only five seconds the first time though, the five minute wait must be something else. - Icewedge (talk) 23:40, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I believe it was raised. Huggle will now use Special:Userlogin instead, and prompt to solve a captcha if one must be solved -- Gurchzilla (talk) 14:19, 18 May 2008 (UTC)