Talk:Huey P. Newton

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Contents

[edit] Death

So Newton died at the hands of a drug dealer. Does the killer's other occupation bear any significance to Newton's death? Did Newton have a drug problem? If so, why is it not in the article? What was the dispute about? Would care to see those questions answered. Divad 21:49, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Newton did have a drug problem, that is why he was embezzling from the BPP, to support his drug habit. TDC 00:17, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

why did he become interested in radical politics?

to quote Homer Simpson, "why does anyone do anything".TDC 00:17, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

reguardless if huey had a drug problem doent mean he cant help people bizzy of bone thugs and harmoney is addicted to heroin


Two professors of mine, with competencies in African-American studies, claim that Huey was driven to heroin by the constant surveillence/state terrorism against the BPP vis-a-vis COINTELPRO. Huey and Bobby founded the party, according to their view (which conforms with Seale's writings) in order to stop police brutality in the Oakland area and agitate for radical economic change.

  • Like how Kurt Cobain only did Heroin because he had "stomach problems"? 76.86.0.31 03:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I have to say that this biography is a stub, yet it is not labeled as such

Moreover, anybody notice that much of the description of Newton's death is a straight cut-and-paste from the NY Times article? Care to rewrite? 67.189.242.42 (talk) 23:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Big deletion on 8 Feb

It looks like User:kissmeainticute deleted a huge chunk of this article on 8 Feb, with no comments. I agree that this article needs quite a bit of work, but that seems like a bad way to start. Maybe add a POV tag and go from there? Thoughts?

Was Huey Newton chairman of the Black Panthers, or minister of defence?

Dr. Huey P. Newton was Minister of Defense. Bobby Seale was Chairman. Haxwell 20:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding a Reference

Elaine Brown's memoir includes a critical section that discusses Newton thuggery. I will add it as "a" reference, not "the" reference because I have no idea where the rest of what is in this article originates. skywriter 19:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The history of this article reveals references deleted. I will re-add these:

  • Hevesi, Dennis. (August 23, 1989). "Huey Newton Symbolized the Rising Black Anger of a Generation". New York Times, p. 7.

and these

skywriter 19:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

It is apparently easy to be published. Amazon lists many books by this guy, including The genius of. All are now listed. Do not remove references that complete the record. skywriter 20:22, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The article itself continues to lack citations for the text within the article. The tag should stay on it. skywriter 20:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

It'd be great if we had a public domain picture of him for the article, but I can't find one. Sinatra Fonzarelli 03:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added some stuff.

I added the titles and organized the paragraphs. I also added a better picture. Not sure if it's public domain though.

[edit] Huey's Death

Newton did have a serious drug problem. Apparently when he was released from jail at the height of the party there was a lot of rich liberals that were hanging around that were giving the party and Newton money and drugs. So at first he was doing cocaine and alcohol and then he gradually slipped into a crack addiction. This info can be found in Elaine Brown's book "A Taste of Power" which was reference for this article, along with David Hillard's autobigraphy "This Side of Glory", The movie " Huey P. Newton Story" and "Huey: Spirit of the Panther" which was written by David Hillard.

In the book "Huey: Spirit of the Panther" there is a final chapter written by Newton's widow, Fredricka, which details out of control Newton's problems have gotten. She actually atrributed his drug problems to his mental health. She believed that he was bipolar based on his behavior.

Another book "The Shadow of the Panther," which was written by Hugh Pearson details Newton's final days as well. I have never read the whole book but I do gather based on the excerpts I read that book has a negative opinion on the BPP and Newton.

It has been concluded by Pearson that Newton was shot and killed by Tyrone Robinson, who was a member of the Black Guerilla Family(BGF). Robinson confessed to the crime and was jailed for it. Apparently Robinson killed Newton because there was a contract on Newton due to the fact that he used to imitimidate dealers and/or throw his name around in order to score free drugs. Robinson took up the contract so that he could move up within the BGF. To me that seems way to simple, but possible

Hillard stated in his book that he believed that it was some sort of arguement over drugs that ended in Huey getting killed. He never mentioned the killer being linked to the BGF.

It should also be noted (and Pearson mentioned it in his book) that the BGF was an offshoot of a prison group that was formed by George Jackson while he was incarcerated. Most info on the BGF states that it started as a "gang" which is untrue. The BGF as Jackson started was not a criminal based gang but more as an "intellectual collective" that was focused on turning convicts into revolutionaries and making them become a positive part of society through education, politics--basically all things positive.

Anyway the thing is that because Newton at one point did declare the release of all inmates but realized his mistake and stopped champion for their release. This is discussed in Elaine Brown's book in depth. Also it was suggested numerous panther's who were jailed also found that it was hard to secure support from the party for them and their families while they were incarcerated even though all panther's locked up were considered political prisoners by the party. In David Hillard's book we see that he was in jail quite some time before anyone checked up on him. So apparently a lot people were mad at Newton and wanted revenge. Pearson does allude that this need for revenge could have resulted in Newton's death along with the fact he was harrassing drug dealers in order to get free drugs.

Peason's interview can be found here http://www.booknotes.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1213

Some other news clippings point out how vicious the crime was since Newton was shot in the head 3 times and there was a very large pool of blood on the street. Other news articles seem to state in a round about way that Newton got what he deserved and had quotes from law enforcement personale likening Newton to a common thug.

All in all Newton was a very complex individual-loved and hated by many. But it also appears that because of some of the stuff he did and was accused of makes him an easy target for folks to discredit him and his political theories. He was a brillant theorist but a very troubled man. It seems that people always want to focus on the bad and never on the actually good he had accomplished. Personally i think little should be focused on the manner of death and more should be focused on his place in history and his political theories.

Faithevansfanatic 03:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)Faithevansfanatic


I'm growing annoyed at people with a political axe to grind who keep changing the 'death' section to make it sound as salacious and squalid as they can in an attempt to discredit the man. "Oh, by the way, did you know HE WAS STONED OUT OF HIS HEAD ON CRACK?! EH?!" Even if it was true -- and there are plenty of people, myself included, who believe his assassination was political and had nothing to do with drugs -- dropping the word "crack cocaine" into the article is a clear attempt to attach the commonly-held stigma of crack (ie/ it's a drug poor, scary black people use) to Huey Newton. It's not cool. SmashTheState 15:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I would imagine that being killed by a drug dealer, in an area overrun by drug dealers, and having been a known user probably make the inclusion of interest. Also, "crack cocaine' is taken directly from the source. Rkevins 21:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
So because your source is dripping with racist innuendo, it's okay to promulgate it here? There's absolutely no reason to claim he was high on crack cocaine unless you're trying to attack his character. It adds nothing to the article unless the reader is looking for reasons to be disdainful of black men and/or this black man in particular. SmashTheState 22:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Did you read the source? It was about his killer's appeal, primarilly, and was fairly straightforward. Rkevins 04:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where is the info on Huey's political theories?

Huey wrote numerous books and was considered a political theorist so why is there no info on his theories?


Faithevansfanatic 03:35, 8 September 2006 (UTC)Faithevansfanatic

Because you haven't added any :) Haxwell 20:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In Popular Culture Section

[edit] Musical References

At present seven of the ten entries are referring to times Huey has been shouted out by rappers in hip-hop tracks. I think its enough that there be an entry stating that hearing his name in hip hop is a common occurrence. If it is truly necessary that every time we hear his name uttered rhythmically it be documented in Wikipedia, that listing should be given its own page.

I mean seriously. Patrick Swayze doesn't have a section listing everytime someone said Swayze [1] in a hip-hop track. Or Donald Trump?! They are no less part of popular culture, but the information is not encyclopedic, and is not therefore included. Dr. Huey P. Newton has been the inspiration for films, plays, novels, and more. To reduce his contribution or the recognition of that contribution to just a list of shout outs by rappers is disrepectful to his name, let alone the quality of Wikipedia itself.

I know a few understand what I'm talkin' about.

Haxwell 21:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Yesterday, I deleted this line in the Popular Culture section of Dr. Huey P. Newton's page:

In the song "Catch The Theif" by Gusto he raps, "huey, huey, heuy, reminds me of my brother louie".

Some anonymous IP (read: "environmentalist", for those of you who have seen Thank You For Smoking) added it back. If anything at all, that lyric is obviously referring to this Huey and not Dr. Huey P. Newton.

Also, a Google search for the text "Catch The Theif Gusto"([2]) (even if you spell'thief' correctly) doesn't even list any references to such a song. There should be lyrics pages, news articles, artist pages, something. There's nothing.

I'm deleting it again, and of course it can be added back, at which point I will have to decide how much I actually care, but just in case, I'm documenting my train of thought for all the world to see.

I found this page interesting though..

Haxwell 20:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Death details

You can cite all you want, Rkevins, the fact you're determined to add that Huey may (or may not) have been "high on crack cocaine" at the time he was assassinated reveals your political agenda. It adds nothing to the article except an attempt to make his death sound squalid. Why do you keep mentioning "crack cocaine" over and over again? Even if one argued that one's state of intoxication at the time of death has any bearing whatsoever, which specific substance might have been responsible is immaterial unless one wishes to associate a black activist with a drug which carries a heavy social stigma. Your constant attempts to associate Huey Newton with crack are highly suspect. SmashTheState 04:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

They are not suspect. I am merely citing proper sources, rather than the previous version which was tagged for citation for someone other than myself. All you have done is cast aspersions on my character and complain about the facts in the news stories. He was killed under strange circumstances, made stranger by the fact that he was killed by a gang member. Newton was high at the time (a fact reflected by previous charges). I will find further citations and would seek input from more editors. Rkevins 19:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

"He was admitted, but shocked to find himself chained to his bed."

"Within moments the police arrived where, even while he bled profusely from his bullet wound in the abdomen, the policemen supposedly continued to beat him into unconsciousness, however this has never been considered factual."

Not NPOV, no citation, 2nd sentence isn't even written well, looks like two authors of one sentence. Ryratt 15:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

SMH, lol..Mahmud II 23:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

"He was killed under strange circumstances, made stranger by the fact that he was killed by a gang member." - There is no proof he was killed by a gang member, just theories.
"Newton was high at the time (a fact reflected by previous charges)" - Why does it matter if he was high or sober during his killing? It has no relevance.
—Christopher Mann McKayuser talk 17:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Description of BPP

The BPP is described as "a black internationalist/racial equality organization" - know this is rather unwieldy as it is, but the fact that the party had a socialist ideology seems to me at least as important, probably more important, than these two things. Does anyone object to a rewording? 163.1.99.58 16:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name of Murderer

Insert non-formatted text hereWhat was the name of Newton's murderer? Was he convicted for the killing? Right now the death section (along with most of the rest of the article) seems designed to convince me that Newton was murdered by the FBI. I've been looking for the killer's name on the internet and can't find it. Certainly if someone was convicted for the killing (or even found civilly liable), he should be named in the article, and the source cited appropriately.DougRWms 15:10, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Found and added.DougRWms 01:38, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accusation of Murder

"the only independent commerce in the area: drug dealers and prostitution-ring leaders."

- what does "independent commerce" mean here? As opposed to what sort of commerce? Is this just an euphemism for "illegal"?

[edit] Claimed FBI "outright assassinations" of BPP members

Isn't it kind of a big statement to make without even a [citation needed] in there? Who can produce a reputable source documenting an FBI "assassination" of a BPP member, and if it exists, shouldn't it be in there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.199.228.211 (talk) 17:26, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


Pretty much every book ever written about the BPP COINTELPRO, as well as Huey's book/dissertation "War Against the Panthers", describes in detail the murders of Fred Hampton and Mark Clark in Chicago and the murders of John Huggins and Alprentice "Bunchy" Carter in Los Angeles. Based on evidence gathered from FBI reports, informant statements, and forensics (as depicted in the aforementioned books), both incidents are suspected to have been orchestrated by the FBI. Tianmiks (talk) 01:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV Issues

As I read through this, most of it feels neutral like it should be but there are places where I question the writing. As was noted in the talk section above Claimed FBI, illegal activities supporting something good does't make them the equivalent of legitimate small business. Just because a person does charity work doesn't change the fact they engaged in illegal activities for that matter. I would also like to see a better explanation as to why the FBI went after the "breakfast programs". The subtle but thinly veiled "because they were racist thugs" approach doesn't seem logical. They would have had to have some justifiable reason and without knowing the details on that, it reads as though Huey was a saint being persecuted for no particular reason aside from racism. A little more objective explanation would be appreciated and less misunderstood hero and martyr.

If anyone deserves that kind of characterization, it was Malcolm X and not Dr. Newton. KeeperOTD (talk) 13:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)