Talk:Huddersfield Narrow Canal

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Contents 1 Standedge Tunnel 2 Electricity Pylon 3 Images should only be of the Huddersfield Narrow Canal? 4 canals in Oldham 5 Junction with the Ashton Canal 6 A Pylon 7 Photo explanation 8 Gallery or in-line images 9 Route map

[edit] Standedge Tunnel

If you're going to redirect the article Standedge Tunnel to this page, you should mention all four bores of the Standedge Tunnel, not just the Canal one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.26.229 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 28 November 2004

I suspect that rediredt will dissapear in the long run however at the moment we don't seem to have any railway enthuiasts who want to right about the other tunnels —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geni (talk • contribs) 18:32, 28 November 2004

I originally created a new page for the railway tunnels but think a better solution is one page about all of the tunnels so I've merged it together as the Standedge Tunnel. See also Talk:Standedge Tunnel. Adambro 11:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Electricity Pylon

Where is the electricity pylon under which Huddersfield Narrow Canal runs? (Picture on http://www.gorge.org/pylons/page1.shtml ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.16.151 (talk • contribs) 10:41, 1 June 2005

It is near Stalybridge, walk towards Huddersfield from Tescos in Stalybridge for about a mile and you will see it. I've added a photo of it on the site. Huddersfield_Narrow_Canal_Pylon —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iain4724 (talk • contribs) 02:23, 9 December 2005

[edit] Images should only be of the Huddersfield Narrow Canal?

I removed the images of Aspley Basin and Wakefield Road Bridge as they're on the Huddersfield Broad Canal, not the Huddersfield Narrow Canal, hence I considered them irrelevant to an article on the latter. Richard Harvey restored the images without explanation.

What do other people think about the appropriateness of these images to the page please?

Apologies if I'm not resolving an issue in the correct manner, I've not attempted this before. User:Zin92

Thats not a problem my friend, we all have to start somewhere! Now with regard to the images:- It would have been better to get consensus on the images appropriateness to the article before deleting them, then I could have advised you in greater detail why they are there. Having taken, uploaded and placed the images on this article I did so with captions, explaining where they are, as appropriate to the article. You stated that the images are on the Huddersfield Road Canal, There is no Huddersfield Road Canal. Although, Historically the Narrow Canal ended at Lock 1E, behind the current University building, and the Huddersfield Broad Canal started, this is no longer the case. When the road bridge was rebuilt to withstand modern vehicles, which was a considerable number of years ago, it was contructed with a narrowboat entrance, from the edge facing Aspley Basin. You will note that, from the photo titled:- Tunnel below Wakefield Road connecting Aspley Basin with the Huddersfield Narrow Canal anything wider than a Narrowboat will not pass through. This has since come to be accepted as the start of the Narrow Canal. The caption on the second image Aspley Basin, near the junction between the Broad and Narrow canals clearly states its location and in this context is suitable for the article. You will note that I have also placed other images on the Huddersfield Broad Canal and Turnbridge, Huddersfield articles. To move the images from the Narrow Canal article to the Broad Canal article would make it a bit lopsided at the present time, due to the lack of body text, between the two the images help to give a better picture of the flow of the waterway from one canal to the next. Richard Harvey 00:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Richard Harvey. Whatever the exact niceties of where the boundary is, in practice Aspley Basin is the junction between the two canals. As such it is perfectly reasonable to include a photograph of it in this article. The nature of the exact boundary can then, if necessary, be described in the text of the article. -- Chris j wood 19:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your friendly replies - appreciated. Huddersfield Road Canal was a typo; I meant the Huddersfield Broad Canal. Great that we're agreed that the original junction between the HBC and the HNC was lock 1E of the latter. And agreed also that the tunnel below Wakefield Road Bridge only allows Narrowboats to pass, not broad ones. However, personally, I don't buy the argument that the width of the tunnel means that this part of the canal must therefore belong to the Huddersfield Narrow Canal rather than the HBC (supposing the HNC was actually called Huddersfield Canal West and the HBC the Huddersfield Canal East...). I do agree that the generally accepted junction between the HNC is HBC is now taken to be the Wakefield Road Bridge. However it would be good if we could cite some references for that (I went looking on the British Waterways site but couldn't find anything). And I think it will cause confusion if the seeming change in the boundary is not described (eg the Wikipedia page will disagree with several reference books) - as Chris Wood says, maybe we could talk about the change in the text (and unless anybody already has a citation relating to the change, mark it as "citation needed"). Is it possible to add footnotes to image captions? If so, we could perhaps also add a footnote to the captions explaining the change of boundary. Zin92 08:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Surely the answer is to ensure that the historic junction between the canals, and the modern day re-alignment of the boundaries, is properly described on the pages relating to both canals. Bits of canal being lumped in with other canals happens all the time (see Hall Green Branch for an example)Mayalld 13:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] canals in Oldham

Notice that the category had been removed.

However, this looks like a misunderstanding to me.

Canals in Oldham (like Canals in Tameside) refers to the Metropolitan Borough, rather than the town, and the canal IS in Oldham MB

Restoring the category

[edit] Junction with the Ashton Canal

The junction isn't at Portland Basin (which is where a short branch of the Ashton Canal leaves to make a head-on junction with the Peak Forest Canal

Neither is it at Dukinfield Junction, which is the point just south of the Tame Aqueduct where the PF joins the arm from the Ashton.

The junction is half a mile East immediately at the tail of Lock 1W, Whitelands Basin (aka Donkey Stone Wharf or Ashton Old Wharf)

Mayalld (talk) 20:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Whoops. Annoyingly I did vaguely know that, but had a quick check at the first couple of sources to hand and couldn't see it mentioned so I assumed I'd been thinking about a different bunch of canals. --VinceBowdren (talk) 10:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Pylon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Waterways#A_Pylon - I think the wording of the 'pylon' section should be altered in light of this. Comments? Parrot of Doom (talk) 21:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Needs a reword! It is the only occurence on a navigable section. This is the only pylon that canal boats have ever navigated under. It may be that in future there will be such a pylon on the MB&B, but until it has been restored, that is speculation :-) Mayalld (talk) 21:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photo explanation

re the photo captioned: "Approach to eastern Portal of Bates Tunnel from former lock 2E"

I feel that this picture needs some further explanation. Questions that come to my mind are what are the pipes for, and is there enough headroom to get a boat underneath? Looking at the map, that whole area needs some explanation, such as why/when the lock was moved, why two pairs of tunnels (labelled 'portal'). I would hazard a guess that a section about the history and engineering of the restoration of the canal would be in order.Derek Andrews (talk) 11:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the whole article needs expansion around the restoration, and the gallery pictures need to find a place alongside bits of text. Mayalld (talk) 12:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Having taken the photo's I can say that yes a narrow boat can get under the 'Pipes'. (When you think about it; it should be obvious, otherwise they would make the canal un-navigable) You will see they are at the top of the concreted walls, whilst the additional photo of the eastern portal of Bates tunnel shows the entrance to be considerably lower than the top of the walls, follow the lines of the white safety fencing. The 'pipes' are actually curved tube braces, installed to add additional strength to the higher side of the canal wall, to prevent it collapsing. The land above it is designated for industrial use. The tunnels were built during restoration, as after the canal was filled in industrial building took place over the area. The Bates tunnel is the former section over which a Mill was extended. Richard Harvey (talk) 12:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I guess there is just something about that photo that makes it hard for me to get a sense of scale. Maybe one day we can get a picture of a boat going through there?Derek Andrews (talk) 16:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery or in-line images

The whole purpose of images is to illustrate and illuminate the content. In my view, relegating all images to a gallery, and leaving the body as dry unillustrated text, doesn't improve the article. I understand that you are trying to create a photo-sequence along the canal, but that wish must take second place to a well illustrated article. Mayalld (talk) 14:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to add that we shouldn't have too many pictures in the article. Given the number of pictures that we already have of the eastern end, either the gallery is going to end up hopelessly skewed towards Huddersfield, or is going to be way too big. Mayalld (talk) 14:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

If there really is a wealth of pictures and information, maybe there should be a second page 'Description of the HNC' which has the route map, a detailed text description of the route today, and inline photos?Derek Andrews (talk) 16:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I like pictures; I think they add alot of value to articles. Galleries are nearly always discouraged on Wikipedia (and I'm sure there's a convention about this somewhere), but I think we need someway to ensure they don't conflict with other templates and don't overbare the article. Are there any good or featured "canal" articles we could look at for inspiration? --Jza84 |  Talk  19:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Route map

Former Lock 2E - if this is now no longer in use, I think a different symbol and caption should be used, maybe the 'Misc. structure' symbol if there is anything to be seen, or a new 'site of former' symbol if all trace has gone, and caption to be a little more specific. Bates Tunnel East Portal Queen Street South & Bates Tunnel West Portal I mentioned before. This is clear as silt to me. It looks from the photo that there are actually two tunnels here so why the labels 'portal'? Do we also need the name of the road? Sellars tunnel ditto Lock numbering there are several flights that don't carry lock numbers, and most of the western locks aren't numbered. Is there an explanation why the western locks go as high as 32W, but there aren't that many locks? Do they carry on from the Aston canal maybe? Derek Andrews (talk) 16:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)