User talk:Hossmann

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[edit] Welcome

Hello Hossmann, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Wikipedianinthehouse 21:52, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of a 'steal'

I like the idea of the Draft Steal page, but you should really put the definition of a steal on the page. I added a few players to the list, but I considered these players steals because they had successful careers based on where they were drafted. I think that a player who is drafted 200th something overall in a draft should be considered a "steal" if they become an everday player in the NHL. So all I'm asking is to put the definiton of a draft steal on the page, so that future people who add on to this page know who is acceptable to put on and who isn't. Croat Canuck 03:51, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

  A few things, first off, thank you for the complement. Secondly, I will add the opening statement soon... probably when I feel like it. Thirdly, I took a look through what you have edited, and while I agree with a few of your additions, some of them either do not qualify (like Bates, Battaglia, Axelsson), didn't really make an impact on the NHL (Baron, Albelin, Arvedson), or need another year or two of playing to see if they can be considered as steals (Arnason, Barnaby, Aucoin, and Afinogenov). Those additions that I feel to be "unqualified" will be deleted... for now. Otherwise, thank you for contributing. Hossmann 14:53, September 17 2005

[edit] List of NHL Draft Steals (deletion or not)

I know you are a little puzzled as to why I put the article up for deletion, so I think I need to make myself a bit clearer for my reasoning to do so. I do think it is a great topic, but it is much too debatable as it stands to be a Wikipedia article. There is no model or milestone that seperates players from being declared a 'steal'. There are also too many variables which make it hard to declare a player a steal such as:

  • Impact on the team the player was originally drafted by: it is obviously a steal by a team if they find a star in the late rounds, however it isn't a steal if the player has his success on other teams. On the page there are players like Anson Carter and Craig Conroy, who only played a few games with the teams that drafted them. How does that make them a steal? So a steal would have to have a set amount of success with their original team.
  • How far back the player was picked: It also depends how far back in the draft a player was picked in order to be considered a steal. For example Kim Johnsson was the last player selected in the 1994 Entry Draft at 286th overall. I would declare him a steal because he has become a very good defenseman in the NHL. However, if Johnsson was picked 70th overall, he would not have the same merit of being declared a steal because his career is not exceptional for being drafted 70th.
  • Career Success: Obviously this is the biggest one. A player's career success is hard to nail down, because there are many different kinds of players. There are goal scorers, playmakers, tough guys, rushing defenseman, stay-at-home defensemen, checkers, big-game players etc. So who is to judge that Pavel Bure's career is more successful than Jon Klemm's? Bure may have scored a lot of goals, but he was a defensive liability. Klemm may not be as offensively gifted, but he also helps prevent a lot of goals. He also is on track to play more games than Bure, and he has already won more Stanley's than Bure (2-0). So who is to say that who has had the better career? It is entirely debatable, and that is the problem.
  • Longevity: There are also cases where players have very successful careers but just did not play long enough. Look at Todd Bergen. He played only 14 regular season games for the Flyers in the 1984-85 season, but he scored 11 goals and had 16 points. He definitely made an impact, and he was a core component for the Flyers that year as he scored 13 points in 17 games in the playoffs. Bergen was drafted 98th overall by the Flyers, but it is debatable as to whether or not he was a steal, because he definitely proved to be a very talented player, but he didn't play long enough to show he could sustain it.
  • Stanley Cups Won: This is the goal of all NHL hockey players, and it too should play a very important role in determining a player's success.

There are just too many variables too determine without a hard formula as to whether or not a player is a steal. If the article is to have any merit, it should dissolve any sniff of POV (example: This is a list of players who were picked 100th overall or later who managed to collect 400 career points in the NHL). That has absolutely no POV, and all people on the list would have no debate as to whether or not they belong on it.

Sorry, this was a bit lengthy, but you said you were suprised I put it up for deletion, and I felt you needed to know I wasn't trying to pick on the article. By the way, my edits that I did a month ago were put up before you had a clear definition of a draft steal. If the definition had been there a month ago, I would have put the article up for deletion then. Croat Canuck 03:44, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of NHL Draft Busts

I think we can save this list from being deleted if we come up with strong criteria for inclusion. I have done my best on the vote pages to show other examples of similar articles that there aren't any problems with. I really think this is a great list with a lot of potential and I really don't want to see it go. Masterhatch 17:09, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Your lists survived deletion. That makes me happy because I think they are good lists. Masterhatch 21:27, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Yay! I can take away those asterisks now... --Hossmann 23:15, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Michel Briere, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] List of NHL Draft Steals

Smart thinking with revamping the List of NHL Draft Steals. It makes it less controversial and easier to contribute to. Croat Canuck 22:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On June 8, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Autism Every Day, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Cactus.man ✍ 11:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Autism Every Day/Katherine McCarron

Hi, I have just moved the paragraph suggesting a link between Autism Every Day, and the death of Katherine McCarron over to the Talk Page. I think it is too serious/contraversial a claim to make without a reference. I did a quick Google for such a reference, and could only find the idea suggested in blogs (which I do not feel are appropriate for such a claim). I have no problem with it going back in if you can find a good reference. Chovain 13:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)