Talk:Horse meat

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Contents

[edit] rules people

If im not mistaken the talk page is not a place for discussing the topic of the article but how to improve the article itself?

[edit] Restructure required

I don't see a need for serious re-writing but I do believe that the section on opposition to consumption of horse meat should be last with preparation and traditions being the preceding section. The main drive of the article is about horse meat and the actual history and traditions surrounding it's consumption should be first. Many people have a problem with horse meat but this is secondary to an actual encylcopaedic description of it. If there are no objections I will do this ASAP. AntonioBu 15:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fine. // Liftarn

[edit] Fast cows

I am removing "In simple terms a horse can be considered to be a fast running cow." from the article. It adds nothing to the content and has little purpose. I'd love to see this entire article cleaned up a bit with a bit of cleaner history research but not expecting anything. --ORBIT 09:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

In terms of cultural perspective, why can't cows and horses be treated likewise? --ConradKilroy 16:10, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

It's an irrelavent point. Deer is as to Fast Running Cow. Buffalo is as to Big Cow. What does it matter? The comparison has little merit considering that cows are also a taboo food group to some people. To me the statement is childish and adds nothing to article.--ORBIT 22:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I made that reference and consider it quite relevant because a lot of people have an illogical aversion to horse meat while they are happpy to chew on a chunk of beef. If you think the article should be cleaned up, feel free to get stuck in rather than criticising something without considering why it was included. Garglebutt / (talk) 09:23, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


Actually the statement "In simple terms a horse can be considered to be a fast running cow." would be relevant since there is an aversion or taboo to horsemeat. -intranetusa

Well, not very well worded yes, and just counterproductive in shedding some light on the illogical nature of horse meat phobia. Honestly, I wish people would stop stigmatizing people for eating just another animal. I think it is unfair to prefer one animal over the other. If you don't want to eat horse don't. You don't know what you're missing though! 19:09, 18 February 2008 (UTC) Horse meat lover

[edit] Cleanup

It wasn't very helpful adding a cleanup tag to this page without any comments as to what is wrong with the article. I think it is in fairly good shape, particularly compared to many other articles. Garglebutt / (talk) 09:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Opposition

I reworked some recent additions that were obviously from a horse lover. Hopefully I have toned down the POV without diluting the key facts. It has allowed the introduction of sections on processing and opposition which can be expanded to provide more detail on legal status in applicable countries. Garglebutt / (talk) 23:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I commented out the section "Many Americans oppose horse slaughter due to the inhumane process used to kill the animal. The normal process is the use of a captive bolt pistol." as if it should be kept should be put in the captive bolt pistol article. Calling it "inhumane" is a POV unless it can be sourced. It is obviously a legal way to kill large animals for slaughter. // Liftarn
  • Yeah I tried to retain some info on the slaughter method as I think that is relevant to this article but there was a lot of POV to be toned down. Garglebutt / (talk) 00:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I've added a bit about captive bolt pistol under production (and removed an unnecesaary iteration). // Liftarn

[edit] Legal info

Is horse meat legal to consume in the USA? I know its legal to produce, we ship to other countries. I want to try some, but cant seem to find any website that sells horse

I don't know about the US but it is not readily available commercially in Australia and you need to know people on the land who slaughter their own animals. Garglebutt / (talk) 01:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I know that it's illegal in California to slaughter horses for meat; don't know about selling or eating it there. I was just in Paris, where I saw "cheval" for sale in a supermarket refrigerated case, right next to boeuf, veau, dinde, etc., so I don't understand the statement about ordinary butchers not being allow to trade in it. I also understand that a word used for the meat is "chevaline" (perhaps a sort of euphemism, like "venison" for deer meat, etc.). BillFlis 22:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know for sure. But it is quite possible that the meat is butchered by a special butcher then distributed to supermarkets. Garglebutt / (talk) 22:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I know what you mean. Save me from the standardized corporate supermarkets that refuse to offend. At least I can still get beef and pork, but that gets boring. There are so many other things to try: horse, deer, seal and walrus, rabbit, nutria, guinea pig, buffalo, cape buffalo, water buffalo, emu, zebra, antelope, rhino, whale, dolphin, goat, manatee, platypus, frog (found it in an Asian market), turtle, kangaroo, duck, sea cucumber, giraffe, llama, capybara, moose, iguana, caribou, porcupine, anteater, sloth, beaver, hippo, wildebeest, elephant, peccary, camel... AlbertCahalan 23:35, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
One of the links at the bottom of the page says you can legally buy horse meat in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio and Virginia. Beltex and Dallas Crown only ship to foreign distributers. Your best bet is probably flying to Quebec. (to get horse meat that may have come from Texas) I've no idea how U.S. customs would react to a few frozen steaks. If you can take dry ice on a plane, do so. Let us know how it goes. AlbertCahalan 00:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
You could get smoked and salted (the type you have on sandwiches). In an unopened package they can be kept in room temperature for quite some time. Or dried (charqui). // Liftarn

[edit] that's disgusting

what kind of a person would slaughter such a noble animal for food?--Horse master 04:00, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone who is hungry and doesn't anthropomorphise animals. Garglebutt / (talk) 04:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Noble animal? That is total crap. Why is it nobler than a pig, for instance? BTW, horse meat sausage with mustard is very delicious. --84.148.180.111 01:00, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
While I love horses dearly, I have consumed horse meat in Italy. Interesting, as to the whole cultural experience, and passing the taboo of American culture. Freedomlinux 02:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

EWWWWWWWW!!! SICK!!! Why??!?!?!?! That's nasty!! Horses are some of my favourite animals!!! *angry* USer:Mitternacht90

Ssh! You'll hurt my pet cow's feelings. Garglebutt / (talk) 21:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
It's kind of funny that people have no problem eating cows, chickens and pigs, but mention horse or dog meat, and they have a fit. -anonymous
Not really. Would you want to eat your dog?
Pigs are way smarter, but pigs are ugly and dirty and they have beady little eyes. Animal rights is all about cuteness. AlbertCahalan 22:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
The dietary laws of Judaism (Kashrut, adj. Kosher) and Islam (Halal) forbid the eating of flesh of swine or pork in any form, considering the pig to be an unclean animal - 72.185.136.96 18:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I had steak du cheval once in France. It was lovely!! That first time I only knew when my mum told me, and I was happy the next time we went on our booze cruise to have it again. It has an interesting tang one does not find in beef. And no, Mr. favourite animal, I won't regret it either. Lady BlahDeBlah 00:15, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I keep chickens as pets, and I've never felt any remorse while eating chicken. I can understand not eating an intelligent animal like a human or a dolphin, but I don't see what makes a horse "noble". I've never heard of a horse pulling someone out of a burning building or solving an equation (and not that one plus one parlor trick).Mustang6172 05:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I can understand the opposition to raising horses just for meat, the killing them in their prime, but surely nobody could object to eating a horse that's lived his whole life and is going to have trouble walking soon. Maybe elderly horses aren't the tastiest, but it'd be wasteful to chuck out something edible when it was going to die anyway. At the very least, those horses could be fed to zoo lions and stuff... right? If I was a herbivore, and therefore edible, I'd want my carnivore companion to benefit from me when I was gone. @_@
Regarding "surely nobody could object ...", see Horse_slaughter#United_States. However, this is not the proper venue for a discussion about this. Wikipedia talk pages are intended for discussions about improving the associated wikipedia articles. -- Boracay Bill 23:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

You guys are disgusting that you eat slaughterhouse animals anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.63.161 (talk) 00:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More balanced external links

Have decided to include some pro-horse consumption links to make things a little more balanced and not just an "I love horseys!" thing.

Incidentally both of my grandfathers and several uncles are farmers and swear cows are more intelligent than horses. But I don't feel uncomfortable eating a steak, so why not chow down on dobbin? The people who complain will gladly eat battery farmed eggs produced under fantastically cruel conditions, and beef and pork and chicken etc etc. Say it with me everyone "Hypocrites!." AntonioBu 05:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taboo

I've always, well since taking some anthropology courses in college, considered the word "taboo" to mean a moral or spiritual law that is almost never broken in society. I guess the Jewish and Islamic dietary laws could be considered taboos, but I don't think the general distaste of most Americans for eating horse meat quite raises to that level. I would work on the article but I'd really rather not. :-) Steve Dufour 01:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I would describe it as taboo, because if you went around in public saying you eat horse meat, people would get quite upset. You would probably get abused or even assalted. Anthropologists use strict definitions of words in their papers, but wikipedia is not an anthropological encyclopedia. It uses common definitions of common words, and 'taboo' works fine in that sense. (Justinboden86 07:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] eating a dish most savory in sound

horse is delicous! I mean it's virtually the samething as other conterversial issues like Global warming! some people dump and go against envoirmentalists, along with anti PETA and PETA! we fall into either side, but we try to get one side full of empty, and that's why conterversy exists. Just go eat the horse you loved, and you will taste the differentce between that animated horse to barbarossa. Flesh, muscles and a REAL job! grow out of that view of life. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.81.177.144 (talk) 04:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Indeed! "Waste not, want not" as they say. No cuisine has ever developed out of actually wanting to eat something. The most delicious things are those that you scraped off a rock somewhere. Ink Pudding 17:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC) Bold text

[edit] belgium

There is not a single person in Belgium using nut oil to fry his chips in. This is incorrect, and the twat that reverted my changes should think twice before changing it back. First of all, in Belgium we use vegetable oil for home use to fry in. 99% of chip shops however use ox fat.

Nut oil (more accurately peanut oil or arachide oil) IS a vegetable oil and is quite popular for frying due to its resistance to high temperatures. Many chip shops also use vegetable oils these days. LHOON 16:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some fact checking required

Having just returned from Switzerland (Lausanne area) where horse meat from both Canada and the United States is priced for brisk sales at just about every grocery store these days, the claim that the U.S. no longer produces horse meat appears to be inaccurate. I have no information as to where the meat originated (i.e. which state), but I see no reason why several grocery stores would make the same false claim as to the origin. Also, as a Quebecer, I can attest that horse meat is available here if you look hard enough; however, it is not exactly popular, everyday food. Most Anglophone (English-speaking) Quebecers won't touch the stuff with a 10-foot riding crop, and horse-meat butcher shops are rare (I know of one in the greater Montreal area). Horse on a menu still raises eyebrows and elicits more neighs (I mean "nays") than "yeas". Just my POV. Thanks for listening. Benderisgod 18:59, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] anonymous additions re UK

Welcome to Wikipedia. If you create an account, you can be more easily directed to various resources that will help you make constructive edits. This article is about food and is not the place for opposition. That topic has its own article at horse slaughter. Please keep on topic. BrainyBabe 00:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed an assertion re the etymology of the term "cavalier"

In the United Kingdom section, I've removed the assertion which read: "The mounted knights which would later become the cavalry were typically considered by the public to be the most chivalrous and noble of the armies units, hence the description 'cavalier'." My interpretion of this is that it means to imply that the content of the wikipedia disambiguation page for Cavalier supports the assertion regarding public perceptions of chivalrousness and nobleness of members of mounted cavalry, and regarding the assertion that this perception led to members of mounted cavalry being described as "cavalier". Looking at that disambiguation page, such support is not apparent to me. Also, this source appears to contradict the assertions I've removed, saying instead that the term "cavalier" comes from It. cavalliere "mounted soldier, knight," from L.L. caballarius "horseman," from L. caballus "horse, a pack horse.". -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Cavalier has several meanings. The meaning that was being refered to was "someone of Knightly or noble spirit", as you saliently identified above, the origin of the word itself is as a cavalryman - clearly being a cavalryman was associated with being 'knightly or noble' and so this meaning came about. So I don't think this is an assertion in the slightest sense. Equally I can't really see why this is such an issue, as its just qualifying why horses aren't generally approached as food in the UK, despite it being perfectly legal. Equally, Knights and by proxy horses were/are unquestionably associated with nobility, braveness, courage etc. in the UK, just take a look at Knights Chivalric Code which backs up that idea quite nicely in a single sentence. I think your going to have an uphill struggle if your trying to prove this sentence is wrong or an assertion, its perfectly relevant and completely correct. WikipedianProlific(Talk) 12:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

This is not a big deal to me one way or the other. I just noticed the assertion along the lines of: "The mounted knights [...] were typically considered by the public [...], hence the description 'cavalier.", which I read as asserting that the description came about because of that claimed public perception. I'm not an expert on etymology but, seeing that no supporting source had been cited and attempting to to verify this assertion by checking a source which does claim expertise, I saw that the source which I checked said otherwise -- that the english language term cavalier derives from the association of horsemen with horses (It. cavalliere "mounted soldier, knight," from L.L. caballarius "horseman," from L. caballus "horse, a pack horse), rather than from the association of mounted nights with chivalrous behavior. If you know of a source which trumps the one which I've mentioned, and if you feel this information is appropriate for inclusion in an article titled "Horse meat", by all means add the assertion back in and cite the supporting source. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 22:37, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

I just noticed, although belatedly, that an addition I made in September 2006 was removed regarding the consumption of horse meat at the Harvard Faculty Club. I cannot tell when or why it was changed, since there have been hundreds of revisions hence. My addition was properly sourced, so I imagine it was removed out of whimsy. If there is no credible opposition to the passage, I will restore my addition. Hildenja (talk) 12:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It's still in the article, I think, but it's been moved to the United States section. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)