Talk:Hornwort

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Contents 1 Im mot sure... 2 :I would not call it a hornwort if 3 Hi Marshman, thank you 4 Im not sure, 5 Image change 6 It WAS a liverwort pic 7 Illustration mislabelled? 8 Monoicous and dioicous

[edit] Im mot sure...

...if the pic

pic that was in the article

really shows a hornwort. Id rather say it was a thallus of a liverwort. greetings --Oliver s. 10:02, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

(i put back that very pic here because we now have the same problem discussed on wp commons and i want to put a link between the two hornwort discussions. The pic here just makes it easier to understand what is talekd about.--Oliver s. 23:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit]  :I would not call it a hornwort if

I had not seen sporangial structures, but at this moment I cannot (from my photos) find a similar thallus with sporangia. I'll keep looking. I would have thought it more resembles a liverwort myself, so something I saw convinced me otherwise. - Marshman 18:28, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Hi Marshman, thank you

for answering so quickly. Someone has posted your pic in the german wp. Thats why i found this article here. We debaded about your pic in the german wp and found out that you first loaded the pic as liverwot. As a result we thought it was just a mistake that its name was changed to hornwort. So i went out in the "Odenwald" today and took a pic of a european hornwort. You can find it in the german wp if you like:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornmoose

But i dont doubt that your pic shows a hornwort aswell, if you say you found convincing arguments for that :-)

Greetings --Oliver s. 21:33, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Actually I do have a Hawai‘i picture of a hornwort that looks much like that one. I'll see if it is clearer. If not (and it is not a super clear picture like the one being debated), I'll not use it and try the German one. At the time I took the picture under debate, I assumed it was a liverwort. However, something I encountered later on convinced me otherwise. - Marshman 23:31, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Im not sure,

if we should call a hornwort a "horned liverwort". greetings --Oliver s. 16:50, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That would only add confusion, I believe;although once upon a time the hornworts may have been considered liverworts, so that name may have been used. - Marshman 18:25, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Image change

i have been working on making the life cycle for the moss the liverwort and the hornwort. i am not an expert but i have seen tons of pictures from the tree on this last weeks and i would swear that of the pic in this page is a liverwort. now this seems to be a common mistake. i have seen many pages having one for the other. yet i will try to explain the main diferences and why i base my case. first hornworst leaves are of a more rounded form with "ondulated edges" like in this image hornworts are more thin, with a thiker midle part wich is the one called tallus, like you can see on this and this electron miscoscope images.

second the fact that there are no reproductive structures visible. for wich the hornwort gets its name like in this and this picture

third On this page about the plants on hawaii. if you scroll down you will see two pictures one of a liverworth and one of a hornwort and deside wichone is looks more similar to wich picture.

against this 3 point there is the fact that on this page you will find exactly the same picture. and yet after have seen many people using the moss life cycle saying is a liverwort i can admit it is not waranty.

based on all this i would sugest to change the picture for the one found on the german wikipedia. on here .LadyofHats 14:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] It WAS a liverwort pic

The picture that was on the page was indeed a liverwort, class Marchantiales. Fortunately, the German edition of the page linked to an uploaded hornwort picture (Hornmoose), so a simple switch was possible. Without reproductive structures, I'm not sure I could tell the genus of the liverwort, though the hornwort is easy since the thallus is smooth and it's making yellow spores. Those are give-away traits for Phaeoceros.

Is there anyone here writing text for this page, or just working on images? Liverwort and hornwort biology was the area of my doctoral work, so I could probably get in a few good paragraphs with references rather quickly. Good images are the only things I wouldn't be able to provide. Hornworts just aren't very photogenic. --EncycloPetey 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Like all pages at Wikipedia, have at it! But your input is especially needed here I suspect. Was that my picture you were confirming as mislabeled? - Marshman 02:23, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes. It was the one titled 'hornwort.jpg', and it was some genus of Marchantiales. I couldn'r tell for sure without reproductive structures which family it belongs to, but it's probably a species of Targionia or else something in the Aytoniaceae. --EncycloPetey 14 October 2005

[edit] Illustration mislabelled?

I am just an ordinary Joe trying to understand this subject. I read the article and thought I understood, then looked at the illustration and got confused again. It shows that the low, flat structure is the gametophyte phase. Good. Then it shows that the two 'horns' that grow out of it are also the gametophyte phase, while the text says these are the sporophyte phase. Am I reading the text correctly? If so, does anyone know how to get the illustration revised? 130.76.96.19 17:40, 5 October 2006 (UTC)Sinewi

You are correct. Where the diagram says "Gametophyte" and points to the two slender structures, the diagram should say "Sporophyte instead. I helped proof this diagram and should have noticed that problem. --EncycloPetey 05:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

• I did the illustration on the bottom, with the life circle. your confusion seems to come from the word "Phase" there is no phase division on the illustration, what is called gametophyte there means actually only sexual organs. and the diference between the two phases is between the plant exchanging sperm, and the plant denveloping spores ( just after the first) please apologise my lausy english.LadyofHats 20:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
• Thank you very much for the explanation. The illustration is very nice and your English is perfect

Hi - I too got a wee bit confused by the drawing so I'm assuming the long pieces were indeed the sporophyte structure - it would be great if you could get that picture changed to avoid further confusion. Alternation of generations is hard enough to understand! Also technically the illustration is a little confusing becuse it doesn't really show a cycle as such, it's more like a labelled diagram of a Hornwart. However I really appreciate the effort as there is very little information out there on the life cycle of hornworts.

[edit] Monoicous and dioicous

I have reverted your edit to Hornwort. The terms monoicous and Monecious do not mean the same thing. Bryophytes may be either monoicous or dioicous, meaning that their gametangia may be located either on the same or separate gametophytes. Bryophytes are never monecious or dioecious (with two kinds of sporangia located on the same or separate sporophyte), because all bryophytes are homosporous. --EncycloPetey 13:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC)