Talk:Hormuzd Rassam

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[edit] Iraq and Syria

These terms are not being used in the nationalistic sense, but in the Cultural sense. Many books on Rassam say he was from a mixed cultural background of Syrian and Iraqi, just like we call someone from England "English" before the nation of England came into existence. -- Stbalbach 17:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. By stating his ethnicity and his place of birth/residence, the reader can get an idea of what cultural backround he has. You call someone "English" before the nation of England came into existence, because they are ethnic English. Chaldean 17:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
He was of mixed cultural background, a Syrian mother and an Iraqi father, that is why it is being brought up, it is significant. It would be like saying someone is of French and English parents. This is pretty simple aqnd straightforward, and supported by sources. -- Stbalbach 17:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
What? Syrian and Iraqi cultures are different like English and French? Where on earth are you getting this from? First of all, the was no such thing as a IRAQI until 1931, so to call someone born and died before this date is COMPLETLY INACCURATE. Books can be wrong too you know. What you are trying to do is against Wikipedia:Guidelines. Chaldean 04:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what guideline you are referring to. But if you look at the Wikipedia policy called WP:Verifiability you will notice that things may be included so long as they are cited. It is quite clear from a number of sources that Rassam had an Iraqi father and Syrian mother. The names Iraqi and Syrian are being used in the sense of cultural background, not "nation", which is made very clear. As an example, we speak of people as being French and English before France and England were a nation. I suppose we could continue edit warring, but since it is cited from a reliable source, your opinion about the source being wrong is just an opinion. I suggest that you start an RfC as the next step instead of continuing to edit war, this fact is cited from a source and perfectly allowed per WP:V. -- Stbalbach 16:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
you will notice that things may be included so long as they are cited. - not every citation can be taken into consideration, specially when it is blatenly inaccurate. What in the world is a "Iraqi culture"? Their was no "Iraqi" culture at his time, he was part of the Valiete of Mosul. What is today Iraqi was split into three region by the Ottomans - thus the word "Iraqi" does not apply. How can you say a Basrawi and a Maslawi had the same "backround"? His ethnicity is Assyrian, his mother being from Syria area and his father from Iraqi area, but these areas were all Ottoman, nothing more nothing less. I am taking this to a moderator. Chaldean 17:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added an additional source and re-worded it. Might I suggest rather than just deleting everything outright and going to a moderator that we work together and find a common solution that we can both live with? -- Stbalbach 17:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I am all for working things out together without a moderator, but you seem to stick to hte idea of "If I have a source, its must be right" or "hey its written in a book, so it must be right." - Their was no Iraqi culture before 1931. Their was no Iraqi arabic before 1931, so to say he is from "Iraqi culture" is as inaccurate as saying Sargon I was from Iraqi culture, or calling him a Iraqi. Do you see what I'm saying? The rewording is better now. Chaldean 17:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Well I guess that is just how we do it, we cite sources and if someone disagrees with a source they provide a better source and more information, but just deleting a source and saying no that is wrong, even if your right, creates a conflict, unless you also provide a better source and/or better information to back it up. I'm happy to resolve this, Rassam is an important person who has been unfairly marginalized by his Victorian-era peers and only recently is it coming to light how important he was, a lot more could be said about him. -- Stbalbach 18:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)