Talk:Honne and tatemae

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The honne/tatemae divide is a universal phenomenon of human experience

I strongly disagree with this. This kind of cognitive split is a disease that has not yet, thankfully, taken over the entire universe.

The alternative to this is to limit your mental horizon to what is currrently socially acceptable. It's mind control instead of control of action. -Ados 21:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


Whether or not Tatemae / Honne are universal to all peoples is unknown to me. But it is present in part of my culture. I'm not Japanese, but I certainly understand these to the point of confusion. For example, in Christian culture, at least the one I grew up in, there is an overwhelming presence of tatemae and honne. The Japanese 'proverb' is quite accurate, at least for me. Tatemae and Honne exist in Japan because within the Japanese language, there are absolute phrases and words a person must say to different people at different levels. If you say an informal word or phrase to a person higher than you, or older than you, it is very unusual, and you put yourself at risk of being thought of as "retarded" and ostricized .... same in Christian culture, only instead of being labeled as "retarded" you're in fear of being labeled as a "sinner" or "somone trying to make excuses to sin"


Regarding the proverb, nice though it is, some Japanese people don't seem familiar with it and I've not been able to locate a version of it in Japanese ~ Winterkoninkje 11:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


What is the double standard? Could you elaborate with details. People without knowledge of what this double standard is would find it vauge.

[edit] Crowded Island Nation Myth

"Even with modern farming techniques, Japan today domestically produces only 39% of the food needed to feed its people so, before the modern era, close-knit co-operative and the avoidance of conflict were of vital importance in everyday life."

Modern farming techniques have concentrate on the production of high value specialit products. Grain, including rice, production has decreased post war. The Japanese population has doubled in the last 70 years. Had the Japanese maintained population levels of times even as recent as the 1930's and had *not* used modern methods of farming, they would be rice self-sufficiency. In Edo period Japan, the population of Japan was far smaller. This myth that the Japanese have to behave as they do because they are a small island nation population density is just not true. Most agrarian community populations expand to the extent supported by the agriculture. Japan and the Christian West were perculiar in being NON-populous. One British historian argues that this sort of low population density is a condition for modernisation. He claims that this sort of low population density (or not at the limit) was as a result of Christianity encouraged abstention in Western Europe while Japanese ethics allowed "mabiki" or infanticide. I think that he is missing somethign in the latter case, but, in any event the "small over populated island nation" myth is overworked. People are still wheeling it out though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.62.200.220 (talk) 08:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)