Talk:Honeymoon

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Claims to the effect "it is not known that p" are rather easy for us to affirm if we ourselves don't know, and have an inherent plausibility that claims to the effect that "it is known that p" do not as often have. But it could, for all I know, be false that no one knows the origin of the word "honeymoon" or of the institution of the honeymoon more or less as it is now conceived; maybe historians or others who know about such stuff could tell us definitively. --LMS

I had always heard the explanation for the name as first documented from an old middle english book, however it is usually commented that this is the first "documented" record of a practice called the "honeymoon". Since the meaning is referred to rather than word coined, I would assume it was in at least some common use by the time the author wrote about it. Some nonauthoritative internet sources have claimed the honey mead story to be false.

As for the origination of the practice, there are several mutually contradictory sources going around.

If someone states emphatically that they know the origin of the word or the practice, I would prefer some documentation backing it up, since no one else on the internet seems to have any. In the meantime, perhaps "disputed" is a better word? --Alan D

To ease decipher the origins, maybe it's helpful to look at a few more languages for this expression. In Hungarian, the appropriate words are mézeshetek, approx. "weeks of/with honey". In German, it's Flitterwochen, "glittering? weeks". It's easily conceivable that the -moon can refer to either the waning and of affection, or the duration itself. After all, Month also stems from Moon, in many languages. Honey- can easily refer to the sweetness/greatness of the new love, or some actual food/drink of honey. From these three languages, the greatness/sweetness meaning looks favorable for honey-, and the timespan meaning for -moon. But of course it's uncertain who borrowed from who, or that there is a single "real" origin at all.

In French it is lune de miel, or month of honey. Same as in Spanish. Not terribly helpful... In Swedish it is smek|månad, or literally caress month. In modern Norwegian it is bryllupsreise, or literally wedding trip. I cannot find an Icelandic translation... but I find that all VERY odd. If the origin of the phrase is old Norse, why is the modern word in the modern derived languages so close to a figurative translation from English? I also find it very odd that there are no hits for the word hjunottsmanathr online that do not mention the honeymoon myth. In fact, I cannot find the word in ANY online Old Norse dictionary. It smells like a big huge hoax to me. Im going to change it to say that the Norse origin is highly dubious, unless somebody can come up with good evidence to the contrary. --Bex 17:53, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

tweaked it, and mentioned the fact that the second origin was based on a Babylonian tradition... and that the norse and babylon origins are most likely false. --Bex 18:07, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Took it out. Here it is, not worthy of the encyclopedia in its present form:
Another explanation is that there was supposed to be an old Babylonian practice that involved drinking mead, a honey-based alcoholic drink, for a lunar month after a marriage.
A third explanation is that the term is a vulgarization of the Norse word hjunottsmanathr. After kidnapping one's bride, she was kept hidden away until pregnant or her family stopped looking for her, and then was brought back to formalize the wedding.
The latter two theories are based mostly on internet rumor, and are as of yet unsubstantiated by any scholar of Babylon, or Old Norse. They should both therefore be considered extremely unlikely.
There is nothing in the article about the origin of the custom itself. Ortolan88 06:33, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

why shouldn't the (most likely) false explanations be left in there? There is plenty of misinformation in books and on the internet regarding the etymology of the word, so I think these alternate explanations should be mentioned, along with why they are not considered credible. ESPECIALLY since the reason why this page was cited in external media was explicitly BECAUSE of that false information that used to be here. --Bex 20:40, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Could someone please be so kind and translate the English text from 16th century at the bottom to present day English and put the translation below the original? I know it is probably legible for native speakers of English, but as a non-native speaker I have had difficulties trying to understand it, particularly because of the different ortography it is using and which makes word seem unfamiliar to me. Many thanks in advance. Blahma 21:16, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • I gave it a shot. How is the 'translation' now? -- Dcfleck July 2, 2005 15:11 (UTC)
    • Thanks, it is much better now. Now i finally can understand all the grammar relationships between the words in that text. Blahma 5 July 2005 22:51 (UTC)

Petit Robert (French dictionary) states explicitly that "lune de miel" is derived from the English "honeymoon". Iglew 02:07, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish?

Why does suddenly the article start assuming that ther word origin is Turkish and come up with a far-fetched explanation of this alleged mistranslation?

Didn't the English word "month" come about as a shortening of "moonth"?

  • The Turkish stuff is bogus. "Honeymoon" is defined as "the first month or so after marriage". The derivation is obvious. FYI, the actual derivation of "moon" and "month" are the Anglo-Saxon "mona" and "monath" respectively. The Latin for month is "mensis", although the Latin moon goddess is called "Luna". And there is no shortage of lunatics on this site. Wahkeenah 00:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] India

The article says in India the honeymoon is called 'suhaag raat.' The Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary (page 1033) defines that term as wedding night, which of course is also its literal meaning. I don't see how this could refer to a period beyond the first night. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dcamp314 (talk • contribs) 17:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Relic of bride kidnapping?

It states in the article on Bride kidnapping#In history that the honeymoon is a possible relic from the days of "marriage by capture". No sources are provided at that article, however, but it may be interesting to research. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 10:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)