Talk:Homosexuality in women's sports
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Sports To-do:
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This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-08-17. The result of the discussion was No consensus. |
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[edit] comment
I believe that it is a misguided view to suggest that this article verbally attacks men and those who don’t identify as a lesbian. Sometimes it is hard to hear and accept the reality that equity has not yet been reached among the sexes, especially in sport. Sport is discussed by M B Nelson as a microcosm of the greater society where the societal pressures are simply intensified as though each person is placed under a magnifying glass. This means that pressures such as defying gender boundaries are highly scrutinized in the context of sport. One such pressure is the lesbian label; it has been cited as a significant deterrent to women’s participation in sport because it not only questions their sexual orientation but also their gender. Pat Griffin, author of Strong Women, Deep Closets clearly outlines the pressures that lesbian coaches and athletes must face each and every time they choose to participate in sport. Regarging gender equity in sport, the difference is clear when one examines mainstream media and compares the number of men’s sporting articles to women’s. One might come to the conclusion that sport is not as equitable as the public might think. Since we have not reached a utopian state of gender equality in sport more work is needed. It is therefore important to continue to highlight the fact that stereotypes, heterosexism, homophobia, sexism, and blatant discrimination of all kinds still exist in sport. Failing to do so supports misogynistic views of women and does nothing to address dreadful state of women in sport.
[edit] POV and Refs
This article conveyed to me that it's saying 'everyone that is not female and lesbian feels that all females who are athletes are also lesbians'. This is simply not true. It needs to have a more neutral point of view as it comes off sounding like someone is on a soapbox vice being neutral and encyclopedic. One example: 'The stereotyped figure of a lesbian athlete is now part of an everyday cultural knowledge.'...Who says so? Written as is, it comes off as opinion. Which leads me to my next point--While several references are listed, none are linked to sections of the article. See Wiki footnotes on ways to do this. Rlevse 17:42, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
This is a ridiculous catagory to begin with. It doesn't belong on Wikipedia.
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I concur. The article comes off almost as a rant against men. And, quite candidly, I don't even understand the purpose of the entry.
If the author wishes to offer peer-reviewed statistics on this topic as a paragraph within the title IX article, or in an article about homosexuality in women's sports in general, then her research is worth inclusion.
This piece however, reads like an opinion piece or journalistic article that has been pasted onto wikipedia. It should be marked for deletion. The author also seems to be anonymously writing in her own defence on this talk page, which is rather bad form.
Men now coach the majority of teams because athletic directors do not want their teams labeled as lesbians so they hire male coaches. ? Common, thats pathetic. Endos 02:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
"Heterosexual women need to fight the label of lesbianism because not all players are lesbian and those who are not should not be labeled." I'm confused. On one hand you are saying that lesbian players should not be labeled, and then you call on "heterosexual women" to fight the label. Aren't you then labeling heterosexual women? Further, this is like a call to arms. I've seen LGBT pamphlets with less of a POV than this. OK, I haven't...but that's only because the idea behind them is to have a POV - a Wiki article is not. This article should be made NPOV and added to a broader discussion on sports/sexuality. slibbidy 09:22, 2 November 2006 (EST)
The following line: "Now sports have become a way for lesbians to socialize and recognize each other" implies that straight women cannot or do not play sports, which in my experience is patently unture, and I would bet that the majority of femal athaletes do not identify as gay. However I'm hesitant to just strike it out because there may have been some valid point trying to be conveyed here. Any thoughts? Avraham 05:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, merge with another article or delete it outright, it is horrible writing and needs work on tone, make NPOV please. 68.14.135.82 22:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Another thing, "A study in France shows", "some studies show", "it has been argued that" should NEVER appear in wikipedia articles, how come none of these studies have references. (unsigned comment by User talk:68.14.135.82)
[edit] Rewrite
This page needs a complete rewrite. It doesn't cite sources, and it contains a lot of obvious POV statements. It's also written in an unprofessional tone, and it contains a lot of material on strange topics that don't seem to be relevant. In short, this is a really bad article. Also, please sign your posts people (WP:SIG). Jermor 22:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Blatantly POV and heavy handed
There are very little facts here, no sources and nearly all POV statements. This article needs a complete rewrite from a neutral perspective. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.147.225.29 (talk) 09:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Facts, please
Not only does this artlicle lack a neutral POV and references but it contradicts itself as well. In one paragraph is states that playing sports creates and ideal environment for lesbian women to socialize:
"Now sports have become a way for lesbians to socialize and recognize each other. Women’s teams usually tend to be more accepting in their social attitudes towards other player, which makes women more comfortable with coming out."
In the next paragh it states that there's no reason to believe that lesbian women may be more attracted to playing sports than heterosexual women.
"Since lesbians make up at most 5-10% of the female population, and there is no reason to believe they are over-represented among young female athletes, the source of traditional stereotypes of female athletes tending to be lesbians is unclear at best."
And finally near the end it labels certain team sports as "masculine" and states that women who play these sports are more likely to be homosexual:
"The more masculine women’s sports are usually team sports such as basketball, rugby, soccer, and football. This creates a team dynamic for women and they may be more likely to be homosexual or explore their sexuality. " —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RavenJA (talk • contribs) 08:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Possible references for rewrite
There is plenty of material to use in regular editing to improve this article. A quick book search yields well over a dozen books [1] and a google scholar search has over a dozen articles and studies [2] . Benjiboi 17:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
