Talk:Homosexuality and Roman Catholicism

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I was thinking of adding the following to the Others Teachings section:

Oral Sex is permitted, but only under certain conditions. These being: A monogamous heterosexual married couple, where the oral stimulation does not result in a man’s climax. (Oral sex as foreplay only, is allowed between married heterosexual couples.)

I'm not sure if it really belongs here though, and don't have a direct source, so I figured I'd put it here for the time being.Cylith 21:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Acceptance of Teachings

Should this page include disagreements among the church heirarchy regarding the church's teachings on homosexuality? AJMW 16:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. A.Z. 00:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article not good

This article needs serious improvement. A.Z. 00:11, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be better if the references were to this cathecism in the Vatican website? One advantage is that people translating the article into other languages would know where to find translations for the quotations. It's very likely that this article will be translated into other languages in the future. I have just translated it into Portuguese. I had linked to the same website in English to which it's linked now, but now I'm going to link to the Portuguese version in the Vatican website. A.Z. 00:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes regarding dissent

I have included a section which disscusses the extent to which the church teachings are accepted, I think this is an important section to have, it is one of the most challenging topics within the church today. I am concerned that the 'defence' section is too small, yet I have found this a very challenging topic to elaborate on, given that not many within the church make it their main priority to counter the beliefs of those who promote a dissenting viewpoint. Additions are welcomed, however I am not sure that the article should be cut down, I think that would be the wrong thing to do. AJMW 18:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Great job, AJMW. I don't know how important Frei Betto is, but he defends that homosexuality be accepted by the church. He wrote in 1997 a letter to Pope John Paul II, published in Brazil's biggest newspaper, questioning many of the church's doctrines. He wrote:

"E meus amigos Renato e Lúcio, que vivem juntos e comungam seus afetos, seriam aos olhos do pai de amor uma família?"

What about my friends, Renato e Lúcio, that live together and share affections, would they be to the eyes of the father of love a family?

I believe that, in Brazil, Leonardo Boff is also in favor of the church considering gay couples a family. Wikipedia's article about him says that he is a controversial figure because he "allegedly supports homosexuality". Again, I don't know how important both of them are, so I don't know how appropriate would it be to include information about them. A.Z. 03:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Homosexuality in the Roman Catholic priesthood

I don't like having one page on Roman Catholicism and another on the priesthood. I think it would better be treated in just one page.Joshuajohanson 03:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Good call. I fully agree. Otherwise, we’d have to have many other similar pages (and that would be ridiculous): “Homosexuality and senators, Homosexuality and congressman, Homosexuality and school teachers, Homosexuality and Baptist ministers....” —Preceding unsigned comment added by LCP (talk • contribs) 18:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, the primary reason that homosexuality in the priesthood has become a matter of such interest is the church sex abuse scandal, and the declarations of Pope Benedict. The articles deal with different issues - one is theological, one is about the logical machinery of an organised church. There should not be a merge in my opinion. AJMW 22:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church talks about all aspects, not just theological. There is stuff about the debate in the church, Courage International, and the history of declarations, and yes, even some about the logical machinery of an organized church. I also think the sex scandals and the reaction to them can be better understood within the context of the church in general. And yes, the media did make a big deal about the Homosexuality in the Roman Catholic Priesthood, but I would venture there would be unknown homosexual involvement among the ranks of almost any church. Are we going to do Homosexuality in the New Life Church leadership, and talk about Ted Haggard? Yes, some of the priests messed up and yes, it is important and we should talk about it, but I think having a separate article gives it undue weight. Joshuajohanson (talk) 09:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
If no one else has a rebuttal, I am going to go ahead and move it. Joshuajohanson (talk) 17:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Catholic study on homosexuality/NPOV

I suggest materials from this site be included: http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/zmorhombibl.HTM

It is a Catholic exegete. If this is about Catholicism and Homosexuality, there should be much more material about the views of majority of Catholics led by its orthodox leaders. NPOV means more space and material given to experts. Right now this article is not NPOV. R Davidson (talk) 14:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No longer "objectively disordered"?

This article quotes the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states in paragraph n.2358 regarding the issue of homosexual tendencies:

"The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."

I visited the Vatican's official website last Wednesday, and the sentence was still there. However, when I visited it again today, the words "objectively disordered" have mysteriously disappeared. The current version of the paragraph reads as follows:

"The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity."

Does the Church regularly change the wording of the Catechism or is this done infrequently? Does such a change in wording signal a shift in the Church's position? Maybe it's just insignificant, but I wanted to signal it anyway since it seemed pretty weird to me. BomBom (talk) 16:53, 24 March 2008 (UTC)