Talk:Home Secretary

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What the hell does it mean to say that the Lord Chancellor is unelected? All British cabinet ministers are unelected... john 08:29, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

He hasn't been elected as an MP (he's a hereditary peer IIRC.)

Well, I guess. But historically, most Lord Chancellors have been MPs when they are made Lord Chancellor. Then they are granted a peerage. Just about every Lord Chancellor, save Lord Bathurst, who inherited his title after he ceased to be Lord Chancellor, has been a peer of first creation (well, the 2nd Lord Hailsham is weird, because he renounced his hereditary peerage and then was granted a life peerage in order to become Lord Chancellor). At any rate, it's utterly insane to say that the office is bad because its holder is unelected. Whether or not someone is elected as an MP, I don't see what that has to do with the selection process for ministers, who are all chosen by the PM, at this point (and officially chosen by the Queen). At any rate, this is an issue from two months ago, so no real need to do anything about it - I already corrected the article. john 00:47, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] annointment of bishops

Should this be anointment or appointment? I don't think Church of England bishops are normally an(n)ointed! rossb 16:09, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed move to Home Secretary

  • Support Common name jguk 23:27, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • support. I know we don't always use common names for offices, but this one's formal name is only used in really formal documents issued by the government. Pretty much every link to it will want to use "Home Secretary" as the link text, it would be easier this way. Morwen - Talk 23:29, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - agreed. violet/riga (t) 23:44, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support, though the formalism sits well with me. ;-) James F. (talk) 09:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Even the Home Office website calls Clarke "Home Secretary". The official title is too obscure as the ministry is now called the "Home Office" not the "Home Department". Timrollpickering 09:34, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support, standard usage. Berek 12:45, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - "common names" rule. --rbrwr± 13:04, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support Gareth Hughes 15:43, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support rossb 16:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support john k 16:09, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC) (should we combine Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs at Foreign Secretary? Of course, even Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs is already not unique, since the French had one in the 18th century, and foreign secretary might apply to German State Secretaries for Foreign Affairs of the late 19th/early 20th centuries)
    • Both "Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs" and even "Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs" are often still used in common discourse and a lot lists that aim to use the formal title (whereas this post is often formalised to "Secretary of State for Home Affairs"). But I'd agree with merging the pages in - the formal merger isn't that major a landmark in the history of the position and a continuous list from Fox to Straw is more useful. Timrollpickering 19:42, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Support Susvolans (pigs can fly) 17:38, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

---Discussion---

  • I am a bit cautious about this move. The title Home Secretary may well be used by cabinet ministers of other countries, particularly Commonwealth countries. Therefore, even the present title might show limited geographic bias. Gareth Hughes 00:09, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't believe the term is used elsewhere. Can you cite an example? jguk 09:39, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Statistics from the top 200 of a Google search[1], using www.google.com/nsr to reduce bias towards Britain:
    • 180 (90%) refer to the British minister.
    • 7 refer to counterpart ministers outside Britain.
    • 4 use the phrase "Shadow Home Secretary".
    • 1 refers to the "home secretary of the National Academy of Sciences".
    • 8 (4 in the top 10) talk about secretaries working from home.
Susvolans (pigs can fly) 13:48, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yup, it looks like the UK is the only country to have a Cabinet minister titled Home Secretary: I'll add my name to support. Gareth Hughes 15:43, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
as a matter of interest, what countries did the 7 ministers outside Britain represent? rossb 16:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
India, France, Nepal, either Pakistan or Pakistani Punjab, also in Pakistan, Czech Republic, and Indian Punjab. Susvolans (pigs can fly) 17:38, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
France doesn't have a minister actually called the Home Secretary. They have a Minister of the Interior. So, I would imagine, does the Czech Republic. I am uncertain about Nepal, India, and Pakistan. john k 20:22, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 18:59, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jurisdiction over N. Ireland?

Is not Northern Irish law also separate from English law? Does the Home Secretary have jurisdiction there too? --Jfruh 14:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Social policy

The section on social issues needs changing - social exclusion has never sat with the Home Office, and voluntary sector and race policy has now moved. I'll look to change this as soon as I can. Greycap 20:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving this out again

The page's been moved here and has been comfortable for over a year. But all things change, WP grows, and the time has come to recognise that while no other country has a cabinet-rank internal affairs minister who calls himself the home secretary, several other countries have very prominent officials who are known as the home secretary. People should prepare themselves for a change to this page in the near future. Hornplease 06:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

"Home Secretary" is, I think, a primary usage for the British cabinet member. john k 15:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Separation of justice issues from home secretary

Is this really that unusual? The Home Secretary is like a continental interior minister, not a justice minister, and most continental countries have a separate justice minister who deals with such things. john k 15:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)