Talk:Holotropic Breathwork/Archive 3
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Mediation Announcement
I have opened the case at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-01-23 Holotropic Breathwork NPOV disagreement and listed myself as mediator. I invite everyone interested to participate in the discussions on that page and on this one.
TheRingess (talk) 01:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me that there is no longer any need for mediation. All interested editors are talking to each other. I am confident that together you will reach consensus soon. I suggest that we close the mediation case, unless someone has a strenuous objection. Later, if everyone feels the need, we can reopen it. I will leave it open for a couple more days in case someone still feels there is a need for mediation. Good work guys.TheRingess (talk) 17:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
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- Speaking personally, I would prefer it if the case remained open. Talking to each other (looking at the length of our contributions!) has never been our problem - reaching agreement about the article (which remains largely untouched since mediation began) has. Although we are polite to each other and there is tentative agreement about ways to extend the scope of the article by relocating the controversial aspects into other articles, I believe the core disagreements still remain. Communicator has indicated that he is effectively 'resting his case' at the moment, and I have made clear my own reluctance to restate old arguments, (although I do have more to say, possibly at the weekend). At the moment it feels like stalemate rather than resolution. Jablett 18:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
- However, the purpose of mediation is to keep people talking and everyone is talking. As long as you are civil to each other and focus on content not personalities, then eventually you will reach agreement. Speeding up the process is not the purpose of mediation. Remember there are no emergencies here on Wikipedia. Whether it takes a long time or a short time to reach agreement is irrelevant. What is relevant is that eventually you will. I still see no reason to keep this mediation open. In my opinion, no one is currently violating any content or behavioral policies. As I said, I will leave the case open for a couple more days in order to hear compelling arguments against closing. As I said, you guys are doing great.TheRingess (talk) 19:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
- Speaking personally, I would prefer it if the case remained open. Talking to each other (looking at the length of our contributions!) has never been our problem - reaching agreement about the article (which remains largely untouched since mediation began) has. Although we are polite to each other and there is tentative agreement about ways to extend the scope of the article by relocating the controversial aspects into other articles, I believe the core disagreements still remain. Communicator has indicated that he is effectively 'resting his case' at the moment, and I have made clear my own reluctance to restate old arguments, (although I do have more to say, possibly at the weekend). At the moment it feels like stalemate rather than resolution. Jablett 18:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Solutions
Mediator Comment I'm creating this section because I feel that the editors involved in the mediaton are ready to start discussing specific solutions. I recommend creating a subsection for every separate point. I also recommend being brief and to the point. Remember also, that if you propose a solution, be bold and be the one willing to implement it. Remain focussed on content. Please don't use this section to reiterate arguments already presented.TheRingess (talk) 20:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
- jablett to make any or all of the changes numbered 1 to 4 above (under 'Mediation Suggestion'), subject to agreement and alterations with other interested parties.Jablett 19:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
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- I'm treating silence as an absence of disagreement, and cautiously proceeding with implementing my proposals as suggested by The Ringess on the mediation page. I've now implemented 1 to 3 of the proposals listed above (separately, so that they can be reverted individually if anyone violently disagrees). I'll implement no.4 (reordering and amalgamating criticisms thematically) in a few day's time, leaving 'thinning out' (no.5) of paragraphs to be subsequently agreed on and implemented. Jablett 17:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- Mediator Comment I think this is a great step. TheRingess (talk) 19:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'm treating silence as an absence of disagreement, and cautiously proceeding with implementing my proposals as suggested by The Ringess on the mediation page. I've now implemented 1 to 3 of the proposals listed above (separately, so that they can be reverted individually if anyone violently disagrees). I'll implement no.4 (reordering and amalgamating criticisms thematically) in a few day's time, leaving 'thinning out' (no.5) of paragraphs to be subsequently agreed on and implemented. Jablett 17:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
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- OK. I've implemented the reordering (proposal 4), and begun clarifying and thinning on the first few paragraphs (proposal 5). Still to do in the criticism section are the Castro, Thomas and Shepherd paragraphs. Any takers ? Jablett 16:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
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I've implemented a thinning out of the Shepherd paragraph. His book was extremely difficult to trace through the local library, and the style and content is quite idiosyncratic. As noted previously, he claims no particular credentials. However, there is an argument for keeping it in. His argument about practices in context is relevant, and central to the arguments that he develops in the book. Elsewhere, although he meticulously documents facts, he mixes them liberally with his own opinions, and I've removed these, as well as the medical stuff (The hyperventilation stuff is mentioned elsewhere in the criticisms, as well as documented on the relevant wikipedia page, and it is not central to Shepherd's area of knowledge.) Castro and Thomas edits to follow in time, unless anyone wants to do so...Jablett 11:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've just read the Castro book. Essentially it covers exactly the same ground as the Thomas book, and acknowledges that it has used "The Destiny Challenge" as it's primary source. It is also self published. The letter from "The Therapist" source is quoted word for word in Thomas' book, and attributed to 'Stefan'. There's not enough new material or ideas in either of the Castro sources to justify inclusion, so I have removed them. Jablett 15:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)