Talk:Holocaust trains

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2007 May 4. The result of the discussion was Speedy keep, article rewritten.

• Endorse speedy closure. Tomer^talk 22:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

This article's name violates WP:NAME, if for no other reason, because it begins with the word "the"... Tomer^talk 23:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Then at least suggest an alternate! Holocaust Trains ...or .... Trains of the Holocaust? Having pulled it back from AfD with a major rewrite, I'm pretty much wikied out at present! Rgds, --Trident13 00:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• Suggest Holocaust rail transport —dgies^t_c 00:21, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

  I'm trying to come up with a decent name... I'm not sure Holocaust rail transport really captures what this article is about. Tomer^talk 00:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• Digging around after doing this gsearch, I propose the very neutral sounding Trains of death or Holocaust trains (I know the latter isn't from the title of the article it links to...but the way it showed up in the gsearch is what gave me the idea.) Cheers, Tomer^talk 00:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I assume you were being sarcastic about Trains of death being neutral-sounding. While we shouldn't sanitize the subject, it's bad to be melodramatic about it. I think "Holocaust" should be the first word since it is more about that than rail transport. In that light, Holocaust trains is a pretty good option. —dgies^t_c 00:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

    Oh, my tongue hurts from yanking it out of my cheek. It was stuck pretty tight. I agree, "Holocaust trains" is a good title...in fact, far more likely than any of the other options to be used as a "search term". Cheers, Tomer^talk 01:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

    All in favor? All opposed? Yea/Nay? Tomer^talk 01:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

"Trains of death" is too POV (must be a joke), so if we have to choose a title now then the best so far is Holocaust trains. Rgds, --Trident13 08:52, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course it was in jest. I thought I'd already clarified that.  :-\ Tomer^talk 23:12, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

"Holocaust trains" is OK but I prefer Role of trains in the Holocaust per my suggestion below and despite the response from Dgies. --Richard 20:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Applause!

To Trident for this amazing rewrite, done under significant time pressure! (Oh, might as well weigh in: I prefer a title with "and" as a connector: "Rail transport and the Holocaust" or "Trains and the Holocaust") --Myke Cuthbert 17:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I ditto your applause on the rewrite. The article's name isn't set in stone. I doubt that the mini:"consensus" of "Holocaust trains" as the best option of those suggested really precludes discussion of a potentially more fitting title, should it be discussed in text large enough to read w/o a microscope. :-) Tomer^talk 23:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title

I like the article (well, as much as anyone can like a discussion of such an abhorrent episode in human history). I'm glad it was speedy kept; I would have voted to keep.

However, I don't like the title because it strikes me as a neologism. Does anyone outside of Wikipedia use the phrase "Holocaust trains"? If not, maybe we should change the title to "Role of trains in the Holocaust".

--Richard 20:11, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

That seems unnecessarily wordy, and the term is in use. —dgies^t_c 20:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

351 ghits is something short of impressive. --Richard 21:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

According to google it's 175x more popular: [1] —dgies^t_c 21:04, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course most short phrases are usually going to be more common than a longer one. I agree with Richard's concern that "Holocaust trains" sounds like it should be a common term for these trains, and it is not. Even though it is not completely a neologism (there are a few ghits for the expression) nor is it in common use. On the other hand, "Role of trains in the Holocaust" nearly perfectly describes the article's contents. (I think though the term should be "rail transport," because it's about the whole system rather than just the trains). --Myke Cuthbert 02:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

How about a good proposal for the name, Role of trains in the Holocaust, just to use a "random" (wink wink) example, with "Holocaust trains" as a redirect (which will happen if the article is simply moved to the newly-agreed-upon title)? Tomer^talk 07:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems too wordy/passive voice. 3 words are pronouns, prepositions or adpositions, and the two operative words are at the end. —dgies^t_c 05:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The current suggestions all seem far too wordy, and not quite right. I have put a request on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish history for their input. I'd like to get this resolved, as I am considering developing this article up to Featured Article status. Rgds, --Trident13 11:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I rather like the suggestions by Myke Cuthbert of using "Trains and the Holocaust" or "Rail transport and the Holocaust". This ties the two topics together without creating a neologism, and sounds academic and professional. "Rail transport and the Holocaust" is the kind of phrasing I would fully expect to see as the subtitle of an academic paper. LordAmeth 13:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)