Talk:Hollywood North

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Contents

[edit] Hamilton, Ontario

Greetings & salutations. yesterday I added a link to a wikipedia article: List of films shot in Hamilton, Ontario and that link was removed by Ckatz with no explanation given for the removal. Also, keep in mind that in the "Canada" section of the article it states that Hollywood North "is now common for the term to be used to describe the entire Canadian film industry.[16][17]"...so with that I feel that link I added yesterday should not have been removed so I placed it back to the "See also" section of the article. Have a good day. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, maybe have a look at this policy. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:16, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Please refer to the note I left on your talk page... in short, the article doesn't list all film centres. As I suggested on your talk page, perhaps the solution is to create a "list of Canadian film centres" and link to it from here. Then, all of the links could go there (including Vancouver/Toronto), and it would avoid future problems when other cities get added. --Ckatzchatspy 10:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with your response. The Hollywood North article goes on to state in the "Canada" section that the term "Hollywood North "is now common for the term to be used to describe the entire Canadian film industry.[16][17]" and once that statement was added and approved for inclusion to the article that then opens up the door for Hamilton, Ontario to be included in the article. So I added it back to the article. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, you are free to disagree with me, as I am with you. However, reverting back and forth is not beneficial - and the external link you added does not belong at all. I've tried to make a suggestion that can resolve the problem of the internal link you keep adding, address your concerns, and perhaps head off future issues. Please don't make unwarranted accusation of "ownership" - it does not help with discussion - and please remove the external link. Thank you.
You are free to disagree with me too and I agree with you too that reverting it back and forth is not beneficial. Like I said previously, in case you missed it, The Hollywood North article goes on to state in the "Canada" section that the term "Hollywood North "is now common for the term to be used to describe the entire Canadian film industry.[16][17]" and once that statement was added and approved for inclusion to the article that then opens up the door for Hamilton, Ontario to be included in the article. So I added it back to the article. If you disagree with Hamilton, Ontario being added then I feel before you remove any reference of it in the article that the statement I referred to in the "Canada" section needs to be removed first.Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I didn't miss your note; in fact, I tried to address it in my suggestion about a "list of" article. Please note that this article lists only the main centres, of which Hamilton is not one. Again, that is no slight against Hamilton - nor is it a slight against any other city that isn't listed. We cannot realistically hope to list every centre in the country - that is why a separate list would be better. --10:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually, FYI, Hamilton film shoot numbers continue to rise every year because of the extra regional tax breaks given to film producers. Last year was a record year and this years projections are expected to be even better. Might actually be the #3 film market in Canada right now. Again, for the 3rd time, The Hollywood North article goes on to state in the "Canada" section that the term "Hollywood North "is now common for the term to be used to describe the entire Canadian film industry.[16][17]" and once that statement was added and approved for inclusion to the article that then opens up the door for Hamilton, Ontario to be included in the article. So I added it back to the article. If you disagree with Hamilton, Ontario being added then I feel before you remove any reference of it in the article that the statement I referred to in the "Canada" section needs to be removed first. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
There is no need to repeat yourself over and over again, as I've already responded to your point with a solution that can resolve both concerns. BTW, you should find a reliable source for your "3rd place" claim, as it certainly hasn't made headlines. --Ckatzchatspy 10:50, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree with your interpretation Nhl4hamilton. Just because the term is sometimes used to describe the Canadian industry as a whole, it doesn't mean that we have to deal with all of the minutiae of the industry. There are a million things that could be added if the door were really opened as you suggest. --JGGardiner (talk) 10:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

And by the way, nobody should be edit-warring, not to mention the 3RR. I count 4 reversions for one editor and 3 for the other. --JGGardiner (talk) 10:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I find no harm in adding the List of films shot in Hamilton, Ontario link to the "See also" section. Hollywood North includes all of Canada and not just Toronto and Vancouver. I agree that there could be a million things added but all that was added was a link to another wikipedia article: List of films shot in Hamilton, Ontario since we are talking about The film industry in Canada here which is referred to "Hollywood North" and the Hamilton film shoot numbers continue to shoot upwards on a yearly basis. It's not like Hamilton had only one or two films shot in town. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
You're missing the point. Yes, this time "all that was added was a link to another wikipedia article" - but what happens when someone adds Victoria, someone else adds Kelowna, then Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Halifax, Langley... where do we stop? You end up with a bloated link section, much like what we have to clean up at Film location. --Ckatzchatspy 11:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a link for films shot in other cities in Canada. Would be very interesting to see the film activity taking place in other key film markets in Canada. I also don't think it would be a bad idea. I also don't think that we would see a "bloated" link section, as you put it, simply because its not as if we have hundreds of film centres here in Canada. Again, once it was included and approved in the article in the "Canada" section that "'Hollywood North' now refers to all of Canada" then that just opens up the door to also include Hamilton, Ontario and OTHER Canadian film markets to be included here in this article. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 11:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I still believe that editors have free will. Articles demand nothing of us, except perhaps that we expand them. But those are mostly just stubs. =) --JGGardiner (talk) 11:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I think I'm beginning to see what the problem is. I don't know why I didn't notice this before. The article's link has "Vancouver" name in it and is also included at the top of the Vancouver Featured article here on wikipedia. I think the last thing Ckatz wants to see is another Canadian town be publisized here as being a major player in the Canadian film industry except for his Vancouver. Again, once it was added and approved in the article that "Hollywood North" now refers to all of Canada then that opened up the door for all other film markets in Canada to also be included here. What I suggest he do then if he's not happy with this is create a separate article for the Vancouver Film Industry and then go on to place the link for it at the Vancouver featured article page. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 11:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Please stick to the topic at hand, without unnecessary, unwarranted (and blatantly ludicrous) insinuations. If you'd read my earlier posts, I actually advocated creating a "list of locations" and proposed moving all links there, including Vancouver and Toronto. How you can twist that into a supposed desire to protect "my Vancouver" is, frankly, unbelievable. Beyond that, it would be very naive to think that a mention in a Wikipedia article (or the absence of one) would have any significant impact whatsoever on the "publicity" for a production centre. Industry decision makers don't come here and look for locations, they already know what is out there. --Ckatzchatspy 20:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I believe that you are blowing things waaaay out of proportion. Like I said in the previous post, There is a link to this article here over at the Vancouver featured article and I suspect that the last thing you want to see happen is other Canadian film centres being mentioned here in this article. If you are interested in highlighting and focusing on the Vancouver Film Industry that would be great Ckatz but just as a suggestion I believe that a separate article titled, Vancouver Film Industry should be created and after that post the link for it over at the top of the Vancouver city article where you now have the link for this "Hollywood North" article. Hollywood North now referes to All of Canada as mentioned in the Canada section of this article. Once that was added to and approved to this article here that then opened up the door for Hamilton, Ontario and OTHER Canadian Film Centres to be included here in this artcle. Have a good day. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 21:19, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
It is way out of line for anyone to post speculations about the ulterior motives of other editors. Remember to always assume good faith. In just a few hours I’ve now seen edit-warring, 3RR violations and incivility. I’ve never pointed anyone to WP:COOL before but we’re getting awfully close here. --JGGardiner (talk) 21:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

You should probably try to get Hamilton mentioned in the article with reliable sources first for the See also link to make any sense to the reader. Merely being in Canada does not automatically warrant inclusion. –Pomte 00:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a great idea. Now some people may not be aware of the level of film activity currently taking place here in Hamilton, Ontario and that's fair enough. This is why I created the article List of films shot in Hamilton, Ontario in order to get the word out, inform and raise people's awareness of it. When people start talking about all the film work that's being shot up here in Canada they automatically start thinking Vancouver and Toronto and they would have good reason to since they are both the #1 and #2 film centres in Canada respectively. However, there are other key film markets in Canada as well. Montreal is one and an emerging one is my hometown of Hamilton, Ontario. Since I also happen to work in the Film industry I follow it a lot closer than most especially where it pertains to film shoots taking place here in Hamilton, Ontario. The situation here in Ontario is as follows; Toronto is the film hub and because of it the Ontario government offers film companies extra tax breaks if they shoot outside the Greater Toronto Area in order to encourage filming to other parts of the province. Hamilton has benefited greatly for 2-reasons and they are: (1) We are close enough and only 45-minutes south of Ontario's film hub, Toronto (2) We are far enough, and just outside of the Greater Toronto Area, which means these extra tax breaks from the Ontario government starts to kick in for these film companies. Even if they start with their productions in Toronto but manage to get enough shoot dates here in Hamilton these extra tax credits start to kick in for them. Just to give you an example of how this works, An American film company gets an extra 6% tax break filming here in Hamilton compared to Toronto. The numbers are even better for Canadian film companies. A Canadian film company gets 10% more tax break filming in Hamilton compared to Toronto. The other thing that has worked in Hamilton's favour is our "open to filming attitude." In Hamilton the entire downtown area was blocked off for film shoots like "Exit Wounds" & "The Hulk"...In Toronto you can't really close down their downtown core like they do here in Hamilton. The other area I really don't like to admit BUT in Hamilton we have some shady looking neighbourhoods in the north-end and can double as an American blue collar town or an inner city U.S.A. In Toronto you can't really find any neighbourhoods like that so that works to Hamilton's favour for film shoots. If you watch Mark Wahlberg's film 'Four Brothers' that's supposed to be Detroit in the film but was shot in Hamilton's north-end. I could go on and on with this. I like your idea of getting Hamilton mentioned in the article and a section for it created with citations supplied for it. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable Sources for citations

Greetings. It was pointed out to me that the Internet Movie Database is not a good reliable source to use here on wikipedia. I would like to add a couple of sentences to the Canada section of this article that makes references to Hamilton, Onrario. What I would like to know is I have two sources that I would like to use for citations. One from the local Hamilton Spectator newspaper and the other from the Hamilton Film Office. Would these 2 sources be reliable ones to use here for citations in this article? Thanks. Nhl4hamilton (talk) 03:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

IMDB's problems lie in the fact that some of the information is user-submitted, which gives us problems for verifiability. As for the citations, the Spectator is a legitimate journalistic enterprise, so it should be good - just be sure to assess the stories to see if they are objective writing or "boosterism". (I'm presuming you are referring to a news article rather than an editorial.) As for the film office, it is best to assess on a case-by-case basis as they have a vested interest in promoting the area. If they are saying "project X shot here" or "we had X million in productions last year" - that would be appropriate. If they are saying "Hamilton is the new Hollywood North" - that wouldn't work. Hope this helps. --Ckatzchatspy 04:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

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OK Thanks for that very helpful response. Is the Canada-section of this article the appropriate location to add that information to? Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:54, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of Canadian Film Centres

Greetings. I've had some time to think over Ckatz idea of creating a seperate article titled List of Canadian Film Centres and I think it's a great idea.  Nhl4hamilton | Chit-Chat  23:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hollywood North Movie.jpg

Image:Hollywood North Movie.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hollywood North Report link

I see we're close to a 3RR on this, I think needlessly. Hollywood North Report is indeed a major Canadian film industry website, even though only founded in 1999; not including it at least as a cite is an omission; it may be that it constitutes a spamlink if in the External Links, although IMO it's not; but it could at least be mentioned in the lead paragraph on the Canadian section where the Hollywood North book from 1981 is also mentioned.Skookum1 (talk) 01:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)