Talk:Holiday greetings

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[edit] New article

I am performing a large merge of all Holidaytime greeting articles including Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Season's Greetings, and I will be adding other greetings to the article. You can visit the umbrella article at Christmastime greetings and add any information you may know. I believe this merge is most definitely the best path, especially because all current articles on seperate greetings are stubs, and additional greeting information (such as Happy Hanukkah, Happy Solstice, etc.) will be added. Please feel free to comment further at Talk:Christmastime greetings, thank you. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 20:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi CiS, thanks for letting me know about this article. I've made a few changes, but there are some other issues to be addressed. First of all, in reference to this edit summary, I should remind you that the <ref> syntax is not more "correct" than any other, except so far as it's what's used in this article, and references within an article should be consistent. =) Second, all of the references to usage statistics (this phrase is only used in the US and Canada; that phrase is used everywhere but less commonly than in the past; etc.) really, really need sources. I don't doubt they're true, but we can't just say they are without a reliable source. Third, the title gives me pause; it seems unnecessarily Christianity-centric, but I don't have a reasonable alternative yet. Powers 11:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and I believe Happy Christmas needs to redirect here instead of to Happy Xmas (War is Over) in order to reflect a global view. Powers 11:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I completed the Happy Christmas redirect, and also redirected "Happy Xmas" to the song. As for the edit summary you linked above, I agree I should've worded the reversion different, something to the likeness of "if you re-instate, please stay consistent with the <ref>'s used in this article". But if the user re–inserts his material I will perform the <ref> conversions myself. Secondly, I will work on finding some sources for the usage in the US and Canada. As for the title, changing it to replace the word "Christmas" with "holiday" or "winter" might be a controversy in itself (that's a phenomenon explained both by Secularization of Christmas and Spring holiday), so I don't know what an alternative title could be. Also note that political correctness (or "inclusion" if you wish) is almost non–existent in Europe or Australia as compared to the United States, so a title like "Holidaytime greetings" would not be understood by non–North American citizens. I believe the current title is appropriate, as per the fact that any "holiday" greetings not related to Christmas have originated due to Christmas. Also, there is a "Christmas season" article, but not a "holiday season" one. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 14:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE: Added some very reliable sources, including a CNN–verified poll regarding the preference of Christmastime greetings. Things are looking good, there are only two {{fact}} templates left in the article, one being for one sentence in the "Happy Holidays" section, and the other at "Season's Greetings". — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 15:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, but you still need a hatnote to send people looking for the song to the right article. I'll add that in a moment. However, I have to object your claim that "any 'holiday' greetings not related to Christmas have originated due to Christmas." This very article notes that "Happy Holiday" is a translation of the Hebrew "Hag Sameach". Powers 17:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks also for lettung me know. I would second also that the great number of holidays in the period gives rise to the term Happy Holidays and the quite longstanding Seasons Greetings used on cards. Otherwise good article.--A Y Arktos\talk 21:52, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

I have serious POV issues here that seem fundamental to the article. If this article is about Christmass-related greetings, then I do not think it even deserves to be an article, it should be discussed in the Christmas article. If, however, this article is about the Winter holiday season that is either generic (including Hannukay and Kwanzaa) or secular, then the word "Christmastime" is inappropriate as it references and privileges one holiday. I suggest all contents relating to specific holidays be in their own articles (about those holidays) and perhaps the creation of an article on secular holidays that, in addition to listing holidays in different countries (e.g. thanksgiving and July 4) also discusses the ways in which climactic seasons have inspired their own festivities. Slrubenstein | Talk 15:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Slrubenstein. The redirects here are a real issue; that they point to this article, particularly "Happy Hanukkah" redirecting to "Christmastime greetings", blatantly violates WP:NPOV. This needs immediate attention and WP:RFD is a possible answer for those that who don't their own content. FeloniousMonk 16:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I also concur. This article should be split and redirects fixed, or moved and rewritten. It isn't just the redirects, however: the content is also incredibly biased. This article lumps Winter solstice, an astronomical phenomenon (perhaps holiday of Yule, currently celebrated by Wiccans, was meant?), and Hanukkah, a Jewish holiday, as "Christmastime greetings" and in the content Passover, Sukkot and Shavuot are correctly identified as holidays on which "Happy holidays" is used - in a Christmastime greetings article? No, no, and yet again no. Strongly recommend the article be split and the content placed into sections on the various holidays, or the entire article be moved to Holiday greetings, with a serious rewrite to NPOV. KillerChihuahua?!? 16:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Agree with all three above. I have more to say, but it's not fit for print. •Jim62sch• 20:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Then why is there no Holiday season, Holiday break, or Winter holiday season articles? All these redirect to Christmas, because Christmas is the original basis of the December "winter holiday" season or whatnot. "Political correctness" in the United States is the reason so many are tempted to call this "holiday" rather than "Christmas", but it does not violate WP:NPOV. Those in non-American countries use the term "Christmas" on anything "holiday" related and would not agree with the change from "Christmas" to "holiday". All of the non-Christmas greetings originated due to their time-relation to Christmas, hence "Christmas-time greetings". If you want to change the title that's fine, but this article certainly deserves a spot at Wikipedia, especially after all my efforts to create a large article from a merge of all December holiday greetings. — `CRAZY`(IN)`SANE` 21:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
That's several different questions and assertions:
  1. Then why is there no Holiday season, Holiday break, or Winter holiday season articles? Probably because they're not very encyclopedic topics.
  2. All these redirect to Christmas that should be fixed
  3. because Christmas is the original basis of the December "winter holiday" season or whatnot No, it is not. Winter holidays date back at least 4,000 years before Christ.
KillerChihuahua?!? 21:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Note: I have changed the redirect for Holiday season back to Holiday, where it was previously; Holiday break is a redirect made by CrazyInSane which points to Spring holiday, also a highly disputed article; Winter holiday season does not and has not ever existed. KillerChihuahua?!? 21:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I assume all of those who think this violates NPOV are from the United States (or Canada)? If not, I apologize, but I truly believe that you are all coming from an American POV on this subject. The secularization and atheistic efforts being put in place all across America (i.e. - Schools banning "Silent Night", Malls banning the "Easter Bunny", Christmas being replaced with "holiday" everywhere) do not apply everywhere else in the world. You are being US-centric on this subject, and having this article coming from the American POV is no better than the way it is written now. And Chihuahua, I said that Christmas is the origin of the December holiday season, including being the origin of any "holidaytime greetings", not that it was the first December winter holiday. As for changing the title, "Holidaytime greetings" is inappropriate because the term "holidaytime" does not exist and "Christmastime" does exist. Let's not forget Europeans, who mostly associate "holiday" with "vacation" rather than a substitute for Christmas. As for when i said "there is no Holiday season article", I meant there is a "Christmas season" article, not "holiday season", which showcases that not all have the American POV, as some of you may wish they did. — `CRAZY`(IN)`SANE` 21:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
How precisely do you think it is a distinctly American or Canadian position that redirecting all holiday greetings, including Happy Hanukkah, to Christmastime greetings is biased? KillerChihuahua?!? 21:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
We could change the title, but what do you propose? I see no problem with the content of the current article as it seems completely NPOV to me. I, personally, do not think linking "Happy Hanukkah" to "Christmastime greetings" is inaproppriate because Hanukkah itself is in the "Christmas-related articles" category, and not to mention that Hanukkah is a very minor Jewish holiday in contrast to others, thus the actual existence of a greeting for this holiday is merely due to its time-relation to Christmas. I would not oppose a title rename though, but "Holiday greetings" or "Holidaytime greetings" are insufficient IMO, they are not specific enough. — `CRAZY`(IN)`SANE` 22:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Once again you make this claim: "thus the actual existence of a greeting for this holiday [Hanukkah] is merely due to its time-relation to Christmas." I took issue with it above and you never responded. I take issue with it again. Powers 23:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
With admittance from Jews themselves, the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah is an insignificant holiday when it comes to the Jewish calendar. Holidays such as Passover are much more significant, yet do not have any customary greeting. Due to the "Merry Christmas" greeting and the (fairly) recent development of neutral alternatives such as "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays", the greeting of "Happy Hanukkah" has surfaced. Though it hasn't officially surfaced at any point in time, it has only at all been recorded as of very recently, and is either placed alongside "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays", never alone in a public setting. I'm not saying "Happy Hanukkah" the greeting has any ties to Christmas directly, but the existence of Christmas greetings has resulted in a greeting surfacing for Hanukkah, due to it's time–relation to Christmas, as it is only seen publicly alongside Christmas greetings. — `CRAZY`(IN)`SANE` 23:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't suppose you have a reference for that? Regardless, point taken. What about my broader comment above, about your claim that "any 'holiday' greetings not related to Christmas have originated due to Christmas." Hanukkah is one thing, but there are plenty of holiday greetings older than Christmas. Powers 23:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps this article should be merged into a discrete section of Saturnalia? I see that Happy Hanukkah now redirects to Hanukkah. That certainly makes a great deal more sense to me than redirecting here. ... Kenosis 03:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Crazy is just POV pushing. The only Christmastime greetings are "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Christmas." Happy Hannukah is a Hannukahtime gretting, Happy Kwanzaa is a Kwanzaatime greeting, and Happy Holidays is a neutral (not Christmas) greeting. Slrubenstein | Talk 16:22, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Wrong. First of all, "Happy Hanukkah" is no longer present at this article (not removed by me), and "Happy Holidays" does indeed originate as a greeting encompassing only Christmas, and New Year's Day (perhaps Thanksgiving as well). "Season's Greetings" similarly originated as a referral to the "Christmas" season. Also, "Happy Kwanzaa" was never at this article as that greeting (AFAIK) does not exist mainstream. "Kwanzaa" is not a real holiday anyway, it originated in 1966 and was created as an "alternative" for Christmas when many African–Americans are already Christian. — `CRAZY`(IN)`SANE` 17:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Thus, "happy holidays" is a greeting that summarizes a cluster of holidays, of which (in the U.S. at least) Christmas is one of several featured events. ... Kenosis 17:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Then do not say "Christmastime" as that picks, to quote Kenosis, "one of several" and privileges it, violating NPOV. Slrubenstein | Talk 10:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Given the widespread custom of exchanging special cards and greetings around the time of the northern winter solstice with said cards and greetings ranging from strictly Christian religious messages to neutral (Season's Greetings) to other holidays at that time(Hanukkah, New Year's Day, Kwanzaa), I see an use for an article covering this custom. Either this article could be expanded to cover the custom (and would need to be renamed) or such an article might need to be created and this one link to it (and vice versa). --Erp 19:01, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season's Greetings

Here is a section that I have removed for two reasons: first, it appears to include original research, and second, it is not revelavant to the article:

Season's Greetings
This greeting/motto, which refers to the Christmas season (or holiday season) in general, originated with Victorian Christmas cards in the 19th century, under the alteration of "Compliments of the season" (implying Christmas season), and also as "with the Season's Greetings". The words "with" and "the" were eventually phased out by the 1920s.[1] The phrase/motto may now also refer to the generic "holiday season" rather than the Christmas season. Though this greeting/motto is not widely spoken, it is often used on generic greeting cards or store banners.
Its variations are:
  • As "Season's Greetings", the currently used greeting/motto that began usage in the 1920s.
  • As "(Compliments of) the Season('s Greetings)", the formerly used greetings with "the" as prefix, implying the specific Christmas season.
As of 2004, this greeting is widely used among the media of the United States and to a lesser extent in Canada as a generic greeting, as well as throughout the United Kingdom, Ireland, and Australia as a Christmas greeting[citation needed].

This has nothing to do with Christmas. The author claims it has to do with Christmas, but this claim violates NOR. The claim is in two parts: "implying Christmas season" which is a personal POV that violates NOR, and "as a Christmas greeting" at the end which again is original research. Slrubenstein | Talk 11:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Christmas

Is "merry means drunk" the real reason that people in Britain say "Happy Chrismas" or just an editor's attempt to explain something that doesn't need an explanation. People say "happy birthday" and "happy New Year" after all, why assume people don't say merry because of other connotations rather than because it's a naturally occurring phrase?--Lo2u 21:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

As the main Christmas article notes, there was a conscious attempt by the Victorian middle class to remake Christmas as a family holiday steeped in nostalgia for Merrie Olde England, not the working-class drunkfest they felt it had become. I'll try to find a citation for the disuse of "merry" in conjunction with that. In the meantime, here's an interesting article[1] by Alistair Cooke in which he attributes the disuse of "merry" to an old anti-drunk driving campaign in the U.K. There's no doubt that "merry" is British slang for "tipsy" (see any of the any sites cataloging slang terms for "drunk"). 65.127.223.227 15:25, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Good catch, thanks for fixing that. KillerChihuahua?!? 22:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
No problem. I think there are still things that need to be fixed. "Happy Christmas" really does seem to be marginalised. "Merry Christmas" is "the traditional Christmas greeting" whereas "happy" is called a British alternative and is placed last after "Feliz Navidad". I always said I wouldn't make a fuss over something as trivial as English/ American word usage but here I go :-) Sorry to cause problems.--Lo2u 22:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
You're not causing problems! You're fixing them! This article is horribly biased. At least it no longer has Happy Hannukah as a redirect. Progress, progress. Please do what you can to un-bias the article. KillerChihuahua?!? 22:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I always thought that Happy Christmas was British and Merry Christmas was American. I have never heard Happy Christmas in the United States. Anyone else? --Daysleeper47 00:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk about being overly-PC..

"Winter holiday greetings"? But Christmas (and related holidays) are celebrated in summer in the southern hemisphere. The title isn't any more NPOV than it was before. -- Chuq 12:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

As the primary creator of this article, I had it originally titled "Christmastime greetings" but that was deemed POV. I can not see any other appropriate title other than this. And if you think THIS is POV, check out the (relatively) new article "Winter holiday season", which has completely replaced "Christmas season", which is now a redirect article. — `CRAZY`(lN)`SANE` (my Xmas) 13:44, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Uh-oh, ZOMG... no consensus. It's mostly agreed that the current title is bad, but the acceptable alternative is yet to be found. I'm inclined to move this to Season's greetings as common enough and PC enough , but I've done enough moves-against-the-mainstream today. No prejudices against repeating the RM or reaching the consensus in other way. Duja► 08:34, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Winter holiday greetings → Year-end holiday greetings — To resolve non-NPOV title (it is not winter during these holidays in the southern hemisphere) Wangry 02:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  * '''Support'''  or  * '''Oppose'''  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
  • Oppose Replaces one ambiguity with another. Year-end of which calendar? Gregorian or Islamic? or maybe Chinese? or Mayan? GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 23:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Or maybe Holiday greetings. "Winter" is just plain wrong for half the globe. Nurg 02:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Or maybe Gregorian calendar year-end holiday greetings. Johan1982 18:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments:
  • Comment This is difficult. I support the renaming away from Winter, but Year-end holiday greetings is a bit of a neologism - I don't think it is called that, but that is because there is almost never a need to call it by a non-religion specific, non-nation specific name. I could be a real bastard and remind people that New Year's Day (which is part of the holiday season, at least in Australia) is not at the end of the year! -- Chuq 04:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Sure it is. It's at the beginning end. Seriously, though, I figured year-end was the best term that is actually heard at this time of the year ("year-end sales" etc). Also, food for thought: here in the States, Sunday begins the week, but it is still considered part of the weekend... Wangry 05:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Ever since "Happy Hanukkah" was removed from the article, it only shows three greetings: "Merry Christmas", "Happy Holidays", and "Season's Greetings", all of which directly or indirectly associate with Christmas. Would it really be a sin to include "Christmas" in the title? Like the other user said, "Year-end" wouldn't be appropriate per January 1's New Year's Day. But I don't have any other suggestions... — `CRAZY`(lN)`SANE` (my Xmas) 12:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
  • What about "Holiday greetings"? No season, no specific religion. Add sections on traditional greetings for holidays as appropriate. KillerChihuahua?!? 12:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree. KazakhPol 21:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Holiday greetings by itself would be good, but a little ambiguous. Festive holiday greetings is also an option. -- Chuq 23:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Which festive holidays? Easter? Passover? American Independence Day?--67.149.66.30 01:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
It might just be me but I've never heard any of those referred to as the "festive season" -- Chuq 20:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
    • I don't have a problem with year-end, but I'm not sure it's any less sanitized than winter. Patstuarttalk|edits 15:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Christmas is always in December, whether in the northern or southern hemisphere. It isn't always in winter though. -- Chuq 20:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Personally i feel that Christmas greeting should be a seperate artical, it really isen't racist to mention 'Christmas', i am starting to get fed up with the political correctness on Wikipedia, not being able to to call Bin Laden a terrorist, and the word Christmas is now NPOV etr etr etr--Boris Johnson VC 16:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
This was Christmastime greetings, until CrazyInSane moved it, without any discussion or consensus. Do you want it moved back? KillerChihuahua?!? 17:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Defiantly, should there be a vote on it or somthing? --Boris Johnson VC 17:19, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Boris, you are being misguided. Obviously Boris, I'm assuming you want this article to be renamed to "Christmastime greetings" with the subsections for "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" included. When I created this article that's exactly what it was, I created the article and called it "Christmastime greetings", but it was actually KillerChihuahua and his/her friends that removed every single greeting in the article except "Merry Christmas" because of their extremely politically correct views, thus the title "Christmastime greetings" was now pointless as the article only covered ONE greeting. After this, in order to be able to include all Christmas greetings together in one article (Happy Holidays, Season's Greetings), I felt I had to rename it to "Winter holiday greetings" or KC and his cabal would move it anyway or remove all the information again. — `CRAZY`(lN)`SANE` (merry C–mas) 19:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
CIS, you are mis-representing what occured. It was Christmastime greetings, and included "Happy Hanukah" and other non-Christmas greetings. This is clearly POV and anti-Jewish. There is no cabal; a discussion was held and the non-Christmas greetings were moved and/or removed so the article would be about the subject, which is Christmastime greetings. Several months later, you moved it to Winter holiday greetings , incorrectly with a cut-and-paste which I had to fix, I might add, and here we are. You cannot have Christmastime greetings article with non-Christmas related greetings, and to move the article after it has been edited to match the title to a new title and then argue that some cabal ruined things due to a PC agenda is disingenuous, to say the least. Anyone can check the back discussions on this and verify this. KillerChihuahua?!? 15:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • IMO we should have a separate article for Christmas greetings. These are the most common form of year-end greetings worldwide, even for example in Japan where Christians are a small minority. To suppress this information is not encyclopedic, whatever your religious POV. My suspicion is that the main reason for doing so is to promote a secular world view, which is of course itself POV. Of course the promoters of this POV see their particular view as truth, but again that's not an encyclopedic position. Andrewa 13:37, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree, Andrewa that there should be a seperate Christmas greetings artical. --Boris Johnson VC 14:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
    That's what this was until CIS recently moved the article here. It sounds like a consensus is beginning to form that this was an ill-considered moved and the article should be moved back. KillerChihuahua?!? 15:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
    I do apologize for the manner in which I moved this to "winter holiday greetings", I did do that too quickly and incorrectly, but back when the title was "Christmastime greetings", you or someone else removed reference to any greeting other than "Merry Christmas", which defeated the point of having a "Christmastime greetings" article, as there was only one greeting. Because of this, I felt that the move to "Winter holiday" would be necessary for everyone to acceppt the insertion of "Happy Holidays", and "Season's greetings". I understand that "Happy Hanukkah" should not be here, but Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings were removed as well. Now, it seems, those two latter greetings can be re-established in a "Christmastime greetings" article, as everyone here seems to agree. — `CRAZY`(lN)`SANE` (merry C–mas) 16:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm just trying to nail down what people consider viable options for discussion. What choices do we have, and which is the best solution? Holiday greetings (which currently redirects to Holiday) is a broader term than Christmas, so a strong case can be made that this is a better title. People use it as a generic to cover Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and New Years as well as I'm sure some others I don't know about. IMO the current discussion should focus on Keep it Here? or Move it Back? or Move it to another name? and if we keep it here, we can add Happy Holidays and so on, but if we move it back it must be limited, by the title of the article, to specifically Christmas - which is pretty much Merry Christmas, Happy Christmas, etc. A very valid point has been raised that the current title is Northern Hemisphere Centric, so what would be the best title which will be broad enough to include all the other greetings, and not be NorthHem specific? Or, should we just move it back to Christmastime greetings, and leave the other greetings where they are? No need to rush the decision, lets all consider this carefully. KillerChihuahua?!? 17:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, I think the term "Holiday greetings" would incorrectly imply that there are a variety of popular greetings for many holidays throughout the calendar year, when in fact, greetings are limited to the December–January timeframe only. This is mainly due to the significance of Christmas, but I can understand where there would be conflicting opinions in having a listing for "Happy holidays" under a "Christmastime" title. Basically, though, greetings like "Happy holidays" originated to encompass strictly Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's, but is also now used to encompass other non-Christian religious holidays. And as for "Season's greetings", I'm sure it originated to reference a "Christmas season", not the generic "holiday season" term, which is a term has surfaced quite recently.
So these two greetings can have sections in this article, but also have a link to "main articles" for Season's Greetings and Happy holidays which explain their usage in non-Christmas related situations? I'm just shouting suggestions here. When one says "Season's greetings" with personal intention they are often referring to Christmas, but in corporate world I believe this greeting is often used to avoid mention of Christmas. So there are various uses. It is only in America that holidays such as Hanukkah and Kwanzaa are boasted as parellel to Christmas. I think "Happy holidays" and "Season's greetings" can have subsections here, with links to their main articles that we can create. On a final note, if people don't agree with this, maybe November-December holiday greetings could work?. — `CRAZY`(lN)`SANE` (merry C–mas) 19:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

At the risk of repeating myself, I fail to see any justification for not having an article on Christmas greetings. Christmas greetings is a verifiable, notable and encyclopedic subject, and should have an article for those reasons alone. Possibly some alternative greetings, from other traditions including the secular one that is currently politically correct, should have articles too. But they're not nearly as notable as Christmas greetings, despite the efforts of many. Of course we should not be a party to this promotion of alternative greetings. Our purpose is simply to document what is encyclopedic. Andrewa 09:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

And at the risk of repeating myself, does this mean you support a move back to Christmastime greetings? KillerChihuahua?!? 14:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Well i would for one --Boris Johnson VC 08:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Merry vs. Happy Christmas

"Merry" dominates in the United Kingdom and Ireland; "happy" in the United States.

The same is implied in the bullet points that follow, but it's contradicted in the "history" section. In my experience and by this talk page, it's exactly the opposite, although "happy" goes up a bit when we're pissed at Washington. Twin Bird 01:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

"Merry" dominates in the United Kingdom and Ireland

Well I don't know about the UK but Merry Christmas tends to dominate in Ireland.Indeed as a further example of differences between Ireland and the UK over Christmas traditions we call the day after Christmas "St Stephan's Day" or "La 'Le Stiofain" in Gaelic not "Boxing Day" Garda40 16:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

"Merry" dominates in the United Kingdom and Ireland

I'm English, I've always said Merry Christmas. Also disagree about meaning of the word "Merry". It is a hard word to translate I would suggest something like "joyful/sexy/lustful/fertile/celebratory/drunk" There was in the past a definite sexual/pagan connotation. "Merry Olde England" means "England before the Puritans" (in this context, "Merry" could be fairly accurately translated as "permissive"). "Making Merry" meant making love. An early book of Erotica was humorously titled "A guide to the coast of Merry Land". In the merry month of May, maypoles were erected (pun intended). Mermaids are sexy as well as aquatic. etc. Pignut 10:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)Pignut

[edit] Suggested move to Happy Holidays

This article while called Holiday Greetings is mostly concerned with the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays debate. Why not move it to a new article and discuss it there, and include arguments for and against the term. I stress that this is an American issue, so treat it as such and don't write the article as if it is something that 95% of the world gives a hoot about. Most die hard aethists in Britain or Australia would sooner say "Merry Christmas" than wish a PC Americanism. Incidentally, do any other non-Americans consider it offensive, or just eye-rollingly gormless, to be wished "Happy Holidays"? Kransky 08:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

It is now widely used in Canada, and moving into the United Kingdom slowly but surely, I guarantee it. It's damn pathetic, but it's no longer US-centric.142.176.46.3 23:46, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Right on, Kransky! As a Brit living in Australia but working for an American company, I agree with every word you said. I think I'll try 'eye-rollingly gormless' on my boss at the earliest opportunity. He won't have the faintest. Pavium (talk) 22:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merry/Happy distinction: US vs. UK/Ireland

The article claims that Merry Christmas dominates in the US whereas Happy Christmas is more common in the UK and Ireland. I cannot comment on the former, but I am British and I can say that I always use merry christmas, and the 15th century English carol is "We wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year." I want to check this before altering it and it may simply be my using the more uncommon usage. 82.8.66.45 19:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish Greetings

The entry for Turkish greeting "Bayramınız Mübarek Olsun" is a celebration of Ramadan (religous holiday)

The general Happy New Year in Turkish is expressed as "Iyi Seneler" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.193.203.146 (talk) 10:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)