Talk:Hogmanay

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[edit] Pronunciation

So, like how do you pronounce this word? - Anon reader

Something like hog-mah-NAY, as I recall, but we should find a Scot to be sure. —Morven 01:42, Jan 1, 2005 (UTC)
Absolutely correct, Morven. Lang may yer lum reek! (and other Hogmanay greetings). -- Derek Ross | Talk 08:49, 2005 Jan 1 (UTC) (A genuine Scot)
I've added a pronunciation guide to the article. rossb 16:28, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I think that as it's a Scots word it's fair enough to give the pronunciation in Scottish Standard English -- i.e. no eɪ diphthong or ɒ vowel, which aren't used in SSE -- so I've changed the IPA accordingly. A guid new year tae aabodie, whan it comes -- Mendor 13:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to take issue with the professed pronunciation. Yes, it's spelt Hog- , but in the entirety of my experience, and limited to actual Scots speakers, it is pronounced HUG-ma-NAY; that is, there is a half-stress on HUG, ma is unstressed, and a full stress on NAY.
Nuttyskin 22:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Just goes to show you've never met me. I agree with what you've got to say about stressing. But some Scots say "hug"; some say "hog". I'm one of the latter. -- Derek Ross | Talk 14:39, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I'd back up Nuttyskin and say HUG-ma-NAY is the more often used "correct" pronunciation, especially among well-educated Scots. I was a Hog-, now I've become a Hug- :0) Any more in favour and I think we should change the pronunciation guide. And what about that frightening and ill-timed storm that wiped out outdoor Hogmanay activities for many last week? EdX20 21:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Which foot?

Is it important for the first foot to cross a threshold in the new year be a right foot (i.e. not a left one)? Doops | talk 20:57, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

The first foot is a person not a foot, so the question doesn't really make sense. The important thing about the person is not which foot they use to cross the threshold but whether they are tall, dark, rich, handsome, male and bearing the appropriate gifts (score one luck point for each of the foregoing that applies to your first foot, <grin>). -- Derek Ross | Talk 02:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

OK, sorry; I should have asked about the first foot's first foot. :) Doops | talk 04:38, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Is there any evidence to back up the "hug me now" suggestion being true? -- (Someone who didn't sign)

Not that I know of. That is why the article says However none of these is more than guesswork. There is little or no evidence for any of the suggested etymologies including the "hug-me-now" one. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Some of the suggestions are more likely than others. I'd say the most likely one was the Old English. The indication that it was a Lowland tradition makes the Gaelic suspect, and a number of Old English words have survived in the Scots dialect despite being extinct in Modern English.Catfish Jim and the soapdish (talk) 10:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] greetings

so, how does one wish someone else a happy hogmanay? What is commonly said - what do cards say, etc? "Happy Hogmanay?" "Merry Hogmanay?"

What are the traditional and common greetings?


Not sure about traditional in Scotland, but my Grandfather used to follow the same ritual every Hogmanay. The first footer always brings a small bag of salt, a small piece of coal and a bottle of whiskey, and knocks on the door on the stroke of midnight. When I was a young lad, the firt footer was also accompanied by a piper who would play "My Home" or some other good tune! The first footer would greet the home owner with something like:

Good sir, I bring you salt to salt your meat, and I bring you coal to keep your fire lit. From me and mine, to you an yours Happy New year, and lang may your lum reak! The first footer then hands over the salt and coal.

The home owner then responds with something like, and a happy new year to you and yours. Will you share a dram before joining us?

At this point, a nip of scotch is shared from their respective bottles, with the toast being (I don't know the spelling so I will write it phoenetically) slanjee va!

The the first footer and the home owner enter the house together and everyone in the houselhold takes a wee dram from both bottles. In our houselhold, it didn't matter if you were 5 or 50, you still got a nip.

We carry on the tradition to this day!

slanjee va!
This is the Gaelic slainte bha, "Your health!" This is often shortened to "Slainte!" ("Health!"), pronounced slanj.
Evidently fed up with people asking for someone called Slaynt, a Scottish kilt hire firm has begun using the spelling Slanj.
Nuttyskin 23:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The correct spelling is "Slàinte Mhath". Pronunciation (in IPA): [ˈsl̴aːɲʧə vã]). The literal meaning is "Good Health", but as it is used as a toast is also sometimes given the colloquial translation of "Cheers!" --Kathryn NicDhàna 05:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


I was told by an old Scottish lady (who died about 10yr ago) about a Hogmanay tradition of standing in a circle around a camp fire and throwing young children over it to someone who would catch the child on them other side.

She also said it's roots went right back to Pagan worship of "Molec", to whom the Pagans sacrificed their childred in the fire.

The only greeting that I know of in common and current use is "Happy New Year", accompanied by a firm handshake and perhaps a kiss for members of the opposite sex. This greeting is usually exchanged the first time people meet after midnight on the 31st, and may happen several days or even weeks into the new year. I have never seen or even heard of hogmanay or new year greetings cards. Oh, and Happy New Year to you all.--User:MrPurple 19:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Steak pie?

Houl oan a meenut. just put a cite needed about that Steak pie. While it sounds delectable, dindins on the last day for anyone that I know consists of the final Xmas remnants or the first set of new mince to arrive in the fridge once Teescos has reopened! AND..shouldn't it be a mutton pie? Brendandh 03:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The article is a bit random with it's layout.. Even though it doesn't come under "Ne'er Day", steak pie is traditionally eaten then.. Probably to sober folk up, and to start the year on a good meal (completely guesswork on my part). What people eat on Hogmanay, is another matter! 82.41.97.29 00:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, steak pie is definitely associated with Ne'erday, with the associated belief that it is to sober you up following Hogmanay festivities. Bloody good meal too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Breadandcheese (talk • contribs) 03:03, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] bank holiday

1st and 2nd are bank holidays in Scotland, not the 3rd.--Brideshead 15:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Not strictly true I'm afraid, see the section of the article entitled Ne'er day which clarifies things. Fraslet 15:11, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't find an article entitled ne'er day, however the Bank Holiday page states that 1st and 2nd are holidays. --Brideshead 17:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


I was referring to the section of the Hogmanay article which is entitled Ne'erday. Fraslet 17:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popularity

If you ask most Scots nowadays how their Hogmanay was, the most common response seems to be "Oh, very quiet". It seems the first-footing custom is in danger of dying out. When I was a teenager the first-footing and parties seemed to last for days. What do others think, and maybe a paragragh on this subject would enhance the article. EdX20 21:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

Was this any more or less uncited and dubious than any of the others? Why single it out for deletion? 172.216.71.238 (talk) 21:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

No, no more uncited, arguable if it's any more dubious. Uncited and dubious it is though, which is enough to ditch it. Was a new edit therefore highlighted as a change and very quick to undo. It doesn't mean I'm endorsing the rest of the article or indeed vast swathes of uncited text throughout Wikipedia. If you reckon it's credible and have a citation, by all means add it back. That whole section could do with in-text citations. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)