Talk:Hoboken, New Jersey

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[edit] Discussion

Not much night life in Hoboken?? It's about the only NJ town that does have some. Visit Washington St. around 2nd, 3rd and 4th streets and River St. near the Path at midnight on any weekend night. You'll be hard-pressed to name a single Manhattan neighborhood that's as jumping... This article needs to be corrected on this point and should include a paragraph on the astonishing turnaround in Hoboken from the 1970s-- it went from down-at-the-heels laughingstock to a surprising vibrancy. It might also be mentioned that the number of beautiful girls/women per acre is higher than anywhere outside perhaps certain sections of Manhattan, Paris & Buenos Aires. JDG 14:10, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)


[edit] History glitches

JDG, others, I'm sorry about whatever went wrong with my edit yesterday. I was tracking the contributions of User:67.81.177.1, who appeared to be overwriting information on a couple of different articles. (I think now that s/he may also have been an innocent in whatever problem WP was having yesterday.) This user no longer appears in Hoboken's edit history, but this is the diff I was attempting to correct, and this, I believe, is my edit to fix it, although it's attributed here to Xezbeth. The diff on my edit from both the Hoboken history and my Contributions list shows something radically different, so I can understand your ire, but I was doing routine followup on an anon who had caused problems on another article on my watchlist, not trying to get involved in this article. I have no connection or interest with Hoboken or its mayoral race. Check in at the Village Pump; I believe there's been a rash of problems with edit histories -- edits recorded at the wrong UTC time (and thus sorting out of order), edits attributed to the wrong editor, section edits mixed up half a dozen different ways.... In any case, I'm sorry for the confusion, I hope I've explained it clearly, and I hope we can get it sorted out soon. — Catherine\talk 20:21, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


Nice job with the history section. I was trying to find a place in the WWI paragraph to put "hell, heaven, or Hoboken," but really couldn't, so I used "h, h, or h" as a heading. Dinopup

[edit] West Hoboken?

Anyone know what happened to West Hoboken? Britannica 1911 seems to think it was a separate city [1]. If it has been incorporated into Hoboken, let me know and I'll redirect West Hoboken here. This is all for Wikipedia:1911 Encyclopedia topics. Thanks - Taxman Talk 20:31, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

West Hoboken and the town of Union (also called Union Hill) merged in 1925 to form Union City.[2]–Gnomz007(?) 23:28, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Did it myself.Thanks for pointing out.–Gnomz007(?) 05:13, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Noteworthy vs. Born in vs. Active in

There are three categories listing people of significance: Noteworthy residents, Born in Hoboken and Active in Hoboken. I'll grant that the Born in category helps distinguish between people who merely happened to be born in Hoboken, but played no significant role while they were a Hoboken resident. But how can we distinguish between the two other categories, and don't they just add to the confusion by being in separate places in the article? Alansohn 07:30, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Another cited spelling can be "Hopoghan", which will be added to the section.

At the time of Dutch exploration and settlement in North America, Der Nederlanden (The Lowlands) included all the provinces that make up The Netherlands and much of Belguim. Then, as today, each province had a specific dialect. Most settlers did indeed originate from below the Maas (in Holland) or around the Schelde (in Flanders), though there were many Walloons, who were French speaking. Then, as today, the Lowlands, was "multicultural" society, which relied on its linguistic resourcefulness to do business. One can imagine that without a common language, the Lenape and the Lowlanders started to exchange gestures, sounds, words. "Hobocan" is likely a European spelling of a sound. "Hoog" "hoger" in Dutch/Flemish means high/higher or tall/taller. When seen from the river the outcropping at Castle Point likely appeared higher than the riparian lands surrounding it. I go for the Dutch/English derivation of the Lenape. Who knows what Stevens was thinking? His use of the word doesn't seem to found anywhere until he bought the land. Weehawken, which also can sound Dutch, does not share the confusion, and has more citations.Djflem 20:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


I think the Lenape origin of the town's name needs a citation. My understanding is that it is one of two competeing theories for the origin, the other being the town in Belgium by the same name. Personally, I would find it to be a rather remarkable coincidence if a Dutch-speaking town, close to the Dutch border, was not the origin of the name of a town, spelled the same way, in a former Dutch colony. But I don't have any citation for that, so I'm not making any changes. Anyone else no more?209.125.18.111 20:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The fallen-sandwich story is just a boy's story. I've added the real ethymology, and thought it better to make a separate section for it. 62.233.4.3 10:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The current Origin section contradicts itself and needs cleaning up. I removed the denial of the Belgian origin of the town's name in "what's in a name" under trivia. As far as I can tell, theirs no definitive proof for either of the two theories of the name's origin, but as I said above, I find the Belgian story compelling.Armandtanzarian 17:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

Are there references for the Guiness Book "most bars" claim & the Springsteen "Glory Days" shoot? The layout of the bar in "Glory Days" looks absolutely nothing like Maxwells.

This section should be removed alltogether and/or have it's own article. It is random, incomplete, often poorly written, don't you think?

I have re-located the trivia sub section to the end of the article. It has become unwieldy, random, incidental, filled with details that are too specific in the greater context. though many NJ towns can support such a section it's time the one for Hoboken be removed. If there is an interest in mentioning filmic, musical, historical, or comical events that have taken place in the city, perhaps there should be another site. This a vote for it's removalDjflem 18:36, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings from Hoboken!

And yup, it's the Hoboken from Belgium that I'm typing this from. Small world I'd say. Oh and by the way, with regards to the "Origin of Name" part up there - we don't quite speak Dutch down here, but Flemish. Granted, the difference between the two is pretty much of the same relation as with British English and American English, but still. --81.240.50.86 13:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Dutch is de official language of Flanders... 62.233.4.3 10:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
No it isn't. Flemish is. 89.213.8.132 12:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Character

While what is described in this section may be true, it's very POV and doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.--Rotten 04:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

While you may be correct, strictly speaking, about its unencyclopedic nature, I find that section to be very entertaining, easily readable and as you said, quite true. I don't think it's POV exactly. What "view" is it espousing? That there's a charming rhythm of work and leisure in this small city? What is the "view" that would be held in opposition to this? I think it would be a shame to completely remove it. It's really one of the things that I find maddening about Wikipedia; that harmless, uncontroversial personal observations like this great little piece of literature must be excised because of some unyielding adherence to standards of citability. I realize it needs to be changed, but I do hope there's some source that can be cited to keep some of it intact.Armandtanzarian 17:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

With a section called "Character" it's quite difficult not to have a smell of POV. Should it exist at all? I wrote much of it, expanding on an existing entry. Much of the material could be incorporated into other sections and this was deleted alltogether. Whaddya think?21:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

While this section has been flagged, there's been no explanation for why. Doesn't seem to be more POV than others sections, and there's been little contribution to make it less so, if indeed it is. Comments?Djflem 04:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

How should one address a section being flagged, when the person who did so has not given any feedback as to why they did?

[edit] Notice of intention to overhaul

I'm one of those who has contributed to the wave of sloppy re-writes over the past year and I'm curious to see what you do.

This article has been subjected to a wave of very sloppy rewrites over the past year, particularly in the History and Character sections. I intend to completely overhaul the page starting in July `07, barring any valid objections on this Discussion page. JDG 22:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

As you can see, I've begun some of the overhaul. Hope that you'll add some changes, too.02:48, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Cricket Match

It was played at the saint georges cricket club not in hoboken http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1840S/1844/OTHERS/USA_CAN_24-25SEP1844.html--Geekattack10 05:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Nowhere in the article section about baseball does it say tthat the first cricket match was played in Hoboken, by St George or any other team````

thats becuase i took it out--Geekattack10 16:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] New Jersey Road Map

Though the contribution is appreciated, a road map of New Jersey's major highways and mention of nearby towns doesn't seem to add much to the article. The other map, which seems standard for Wikipedia, may be less colorful, already indicates Hoboken's location within the state. Are there strong objections to removing it, or at least making it smaller and re-locating to a different section, such as transportation???? Wouldn't a map of the city itself be more approprate? Djflem 10:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There is discussion at WT:NJ, and I will copy your comment there. Please follow-up there there. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 14:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
19-Aug-2007: To User:Djflem: The map, although showing some major highways, is about providing context of the Geographic location, and the map illustrates the following nearby text in that "Hoboken" article:
"Hoboken is located at 40°44'41" North, 74°1'59" West (40.744851, -74.032941).GR1 and lies on the west bank of the Hudson River across from the Manhattan, New York City neighborhoods of the West Village and Chelsea between Weehawken Cove and Union City at the north and Jersey City (the county seat) at the south and west."
Note that "Hudson River" and NYC, Weehawken, Union City and Jersey City (mentioned) are all shown on that map, at that point in the article. As for size, I have reduced the regional map to the top-half of New Jersey with state borders. For maps to be readable, alongside the text, they need to be "larger than a postage stamp" (which might be okay for buildings/cars/etc.). And yes, people have complained, "the regional map was too small to be useful" so seek balance. On balance, note how the map (only 295px width) is readable alongside the Geography text above: it shows the named places without requiring another webpage display, then allows the user to continue reading/scrolling the page. For people with vision trouble, they have the option to display the full-size map webpage, but others can just read along by scrolling.
As for a city-map, yes, that is also needed, using multiple pre-selected maps as displayed by http://www.city-data.com. Such a city-map could put Hoboken in the center and show edges of neighboring city limits, then major local streets (not just Interstates/highways). Again, www.city-data.com provides both city-limit & regional maps, together, but Wikipedia can't compete against that level of workmanship [yet], so let's focus on the easier regional maps, first.
The current location of the regional-map is actually best: there was some blank space near the "Hoboken" Table of Contents, which preceded the Geography section mentioning those map locations: an ideal pairing of space available near text relating to the map. I think a city-limit/street map would be better located under a "Transportation" section, in the sense that bus routes and nearby towns would be connected by local streets (not just Interstates/highways). Houston, Texas has express buses that skip many local streets by hopping on/off Interstates.
As for making the map smaller, I wonder if local residents are bothered by maps of their towns, so the regional map should be structured to connect as a thumbnail to avoid local people fuming (about that "darned map image"). As you know, travel maps are huge: fan-folding a map while riding in a car can be a major nuisance, so maps generally tend to be large due to the vast amount of information they add to an article (as viewed by an outsider, perhaps not the local POV).
Example city articles with maps: See Swedish Wikipedia for city/map of "Stockholm" (capital city: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm), town "Uppsala" and town "Kalmar" (versus English Wikipedia: Stockholm, Uppsala, Kalmar).

See more map discussion at: WT:NJ (WikiProj. New Jersey). -Wikid77 08:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not know much about all the computer tech stuff you've mentioned, so sorry, I can't respond to that. I can say that the map which you are proposing is very "Jersey-centric" and offers no perspective to the location, role, history, context to the NY Metropolitan area. How can a map not indicate Manhattan, the Hudson, Brooklyn? If it seems important to have such a map can it at least be of the region? For example, 50 mile radius from Times Square, or something? How can you show a map that put Pennsylvania, New York, and CT as vague, obscure, places? Come on... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djflem (talk • contribs) 04:14, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

Sorry I didn't sign off last time: but my concerns grow greater. The role of Hoboken, and Hudson County in general, are minimalized by presenting a NJ map. The location, culture, history, and impact of the city and it's residents cannot be defined by the map proposed. I find it to be poor and misleading information when not contextualized.Djflem 06:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)