Talk:Hobo/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Ziggy the Bagman

Ziggy the Bagman is an interesting character, but is not a hobo. Firstly, this hobo is a term applicable to a specific subculture in the United States; he lives in Australia. Secondly, he is not a railrider, nor does he engage in the other specific subcultural activities associated specifically with hoboes. He is a "vagrant" or "homeless" (despite his disdain for the term), but not a hobo.167.80.244.204 20:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)chevalier3

Agree. Nothing in the Ziggy the bagman suggests he's ever been a hobo, so I'm removing him from the list. -- Infrogmation 09:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, and sorry for not signing. 167.80.244.204 20:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)chevalier3

Santiago

"Santiago One Cool HOBO" most likely should be deleted. There's nothing behind it or anything of significance for Santiago.

Kerouac?

Jack Kerouac is the difinitive hobo! He needs to be added here, along with Neal Cassidy. -Jackmont Jan 7 2007


Marshall McLuhan?

He mentioned the Hobo-phenomena as well, looking at it from the angle of an abandoned media (train - due to upcomming cars, busses and airplanes, wich he understood as media too). And than I found this: http://www3.georgetown.edu/grad/cct/academics/theses/stephenwanczyk.pdf. I didn't read it yet, but the subject (wi-fi-hoboism) seams interesting.


Old talk

The wikipedia isn't a dictionary. An encyclopedia article needs more than a definition. Same goes for Tramp.

Shouldn't there be something like, "Hoboes first became common among released soldiers after World War I rode the rails, hopping illegally on trains in their quest for work . . . a significant hobo culture developed and even today restless people ride the rails and call themselves hobos, although . . . "

I've removed the following, added over a series of edits by two anon IPs (probably the same user):

A "bum" can be a man who is over 40 and still lives with his mother. His living quarters are probably nasty since he himself is dirty. He doesn't care about his appearance. How did he get this way? Maybe he is a junkie who doesn't care about himself or others. The only time he calls someone is when he wants to use them for his purpose. He doesn't work and spends his life mooching off of others. You can tell a bum by his appearance. He doesn't own a toothbrush and smells very badly since showers are not on his list of things to do. In fact, he doesn't have a list of things to do since he does nothing.

It is, shall we say, rather idiosyncratic, and anyway, the article is about hobos, not bums. --Camembert

Loves lots of men?

The first paragraph says that a tramp, "loves lots of men." Isn't that a different sort of tramp?

Books movies and songs

I have a suggestion that the sections on books, movies and songs for both the Freighthopping and Hobo articles should get their own article, say, "Hobos and freighthopping in media". The reason for this is I can think of dozens more books to list and several more movies but if any more were added it would overwhelm the main articles. What does everyone else think about this? Kaibabsquirrel 29 June 2005 04:41 (UTC)

I went ahead and made the new article, it is at List of books and films about hobos and freighthopping; also replaced the list in the Hobo article with a link to the new one. Kaibabsquirrel 5 July 2005 09:46 (UTC)
Awesome. --Carl 7 July 2005 08:50 (UTC)

Why was the article moved?

On 10 July the Hobo article was moved to Hoboism. Why? This makes absolutely no sense. I have never heard hobos or hoboing referred to as an "ism". The commonly understood term is Hobo. This article should be moved back. Kaibabsquirrel 01:56, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Notable Hobos

I do not see any mention in the article about Woody that he was a hobo or that he hopped trains. Could we have some clarification? PerlKnitter 14:16, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Jep, Woody did some freighthoppin' back then. Read all 'bout it in Bound for Glory. abelson 10:07, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Actually, I wasn't doubting that he had. But if we are going to list him as a notable hobo, his article real should talk about it (or at least mention it) for when people click through. PerlKnitter 13:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Here is another reference: [1] abelson 14:29, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Clark Gable is listed as a notable hobo. I see no reference in the Clark Gable article of living as a hobo, train hopping, or even any reference to poverty. I don't think film roles (if any) should count. Can anyone substantiate this reference? 14:50, 16 Feb 2006 (GMT+9.5)

Eugene O'Neill is listed as a hobo; his article does not mention this. Remove?. 167.80.244.204 20:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)Chevalier3

No mention of Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglass or Dr./author Ben Reitman No mention of the agricultural/timber/mining industies or The I.W.W. No mention of the decline after the switch from steam to diesel locamotives.

I believe that Burl Ives should be mentioned. I remember reading that he had "rode the rails" in the 1930's picking up new musical material as he went. Umioso 18:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a reasonable reference, feel free to add it. -- Infrogmation 21:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Is this a joke?

This page is mostly absurd. It lists hobos as "Hobo Sapiens." Last time I checked they were humans just like the rest of us. This article is mostly useless and could use some serious work.

  • "Hobo Sapiens" joke removed, thanks. As for the "useless" part, be bold. mikka (t) 21:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

mime hobo

He's dressed like a pimp not a hobo!

Like most mime artists, it is an exaggeration or caricature of the subject. I choose to add this photo because it is one of the few I've seen that isn't abusive to a group of people... ie: posting photos of "bums" with missing teeth who are begging for the camera. 72.131.44.247 16:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Home Guard added Do you think North Bank Fred would let us use one of his photos?(I'd ask him,but I'm not that handy with a computer). (fixed formatting this line)

The distinction between hobo, tramp and bum, attributed currently to a sitcom pilot, has been in use for some time. The original phrase was apparently:

"A hobo is a migratory worker. A tramp is a migratory non-worker. A bum is a stationary non-worker"

Based on a google book search, this quote is attributed to St. John Tucker, though I didn't see a date. (Long Steel Rails, Norm Cohen p343)

Home Guard added: Try Nels Anderson page 87,along with simular quotes from Ben Reitman,Nicholas Klein and Roger Payne (fixed formatting this line)

12.65.73.151 17:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

No

This page is sourceless and spurious. It looks like a joke or a complete fake to me. I think it should be removed, or marked controversial, or needs cleanup, or some form of probation. Really.

Homeward Bound

Abreviation of Homeward Bound, soldiers returning from the American civil war were called Ho Bo'sThere goes a Hobo, bound home from the war.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hobo

That seems a lot more likely than the proposed explanations. If hobo came from Houston Bowery it would probably be pronounced Hue-bo, and how on earth would the proposed japanese orgin be explained? While Todd dePastino's theory is not completely unreasonable, what he says on this site: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/143783in.html seems to lend credence to the homeward bound theory.


Aaron Sin

I added the term "Aaron Sin" to hobo lingo, then deleted it, as I didn't feel comfortable adding something with limited proven usage. Anyone else aware of such usage?

Slop-tart?

In exchange for weapons? Ranieldule 19:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I doubt half of the words can be referenced. Even Urban Dictionary doesn't mention sloptart as a word that has to do with weapons. Wikipedia should not be a forum for creating new words.--Infernallek 16:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Photo

As already noted on this talk page, it's ethically questionable to take a picture of a neighborhood homeless person and add it to this article. The "Hobo Joe from Flushing NY" picture seems to depict a local homeless person, not a rail-hopping hobo. Note that the definition does not state that hobo is synonymous with "homeless"; rather, it suggests that a hobo is a type of homeless person who travels around the country via rails or other means. While the previous picture did not portray an actual hobo, it did depict the popular culture perception of a hobo, which is more relevant to the article than adding a picture of a modern homeless person (regardless of whether their nickname is "Hobo-something"). OhNoitsJamie Talk 12:14, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

while amusing, I'm guessing this probably isn't factual...

They also had annual meetings in New Jersey where they would gather to elect a King of the Hobos. Although in theory the Hobo constitution gave the King wide-ranging executive powers, in practice his role was largely ceremonial: taking the first swig of hooch at the Hooch Festival, appointing the mayors of Bumtown and Crackville and lighting the torch at the Hobo Games.

Bold textEmperor of The North Bold text The Hobo page says this movie is based on "On The Road" by Kerouac but if you follow the link to the movie description, it says it was based on "The Road" and another book by Jack London. Besides, almost everything Kerouac wrote was based on his own experiance but this takes place in London's time.

odd sentence, meaning obscured

What is meant by this sentence?

The population of hobos decreased during times of economic trouble, and their numbers increased greatly during the Great Depression. With no work and no prospects at home, many decided to travel and try their luck elsewhere.

Shurely shome mishtake? Should it be:

The population of hobos increased during times of economic trouble,


Books: The Road

The Road is by Jack Kerouac, not by Jack London. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.101.96.66 (talk • contribs).

The Kerouac book is On The Road. Jack London's book, The Road, is mentioned here: Jack_London#Nonfiction and autobiographical memoirs. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 18:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Performance artist dressed as a hobo

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that the photo is an abomination. This fellow isn't dressed as a hobo, he is dressed like a hobo clown.

There are a LOT of good, authentic pictures of hoboes from 70-100 years ago that should do nicely. I'd like to see something that doesn't make a mockery of the entire article. Just my opinion. Richard Myers 12:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

citation conventions

citation conventions: I added some citations but I'm new at this.Hope I used the right form.

User:Homeguard, you should start a new section (by using the + at the top of the TALK page) when you wish to add a new TALK subject.
I also had to revert part of what you did, because you left a link to your user page at the top of the article. You should instead leave a link to your user page at the end of your entries here, on the TALK page. That is done by leaving four tildes ( ~ ) in a row.
I suggest spending some time in the sandbox, practicing your editing. It is here: Wikipedia:Sandbox
But you are also welcome here, glad you've joined us!
best wishes, Richard Myers 04:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
This article stood for six months with out a single citation and with a butt load of objections.Since no one but children trying to get out of research takes wikipedia seriously, and since I'm not retired, I don't have time for this crap.The references are there, you tore it down you fix it.
Great, so now the references are there, but not the material they reference, hence legitimizing a pile of crap.
Homeguard, if that was you again, i didn't remove your addition to the article. Someone else did. You left your name in the article, and THAT is what i removed.
This comment (above) was also poorly formatted, and forced scrolling on the page because you haven't yet understood the basics of editing Wikipedia. I fixed that, too.
The reference that you added no longer belongs, but that is because you did not follow best editing procedure. The new way of adding footnotes embeds the note within the original text.
Please spend a few hours in the sandbox to learn the techniques of proper procedures here. Then come back and do the editing that you would like to see, in a way that no one will object to.
Otherwise, you just take up the time of a lot of different editors, who must fix the problems you create in the articles.
And please sign your comments here.
Richard Myers 22:12, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

OK-theres a genuine ethical problem when someone keeps adding two references that are not used anywhere in the text.Anderson and Brun weren't used here, but now "editors" keep returning them.Homeguard

Brun isn't used now, no. However, there are other references that are. Please leave them be. --Eyrian 04:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Homeguard, thanks for signing your most recent entry here. But it is easiest and most useful to simply key in four tildes ( ~ ) in a row where you want your signature-- that does it for you while creating a link to your user page, and includes the date as well.
I know you're trying to help, but there are things that you don't yet understand. For example, when you leave an empty space in the first position of a line, that instructs Wikipedia to do something in particular. I had to remove the space from two of your lines in talk sections, above, to prevent page scrolling resulting from your input.
Please spend some time in the sandbox practicing. And please do not automatically assume that you know best concerning references-- you're still brand new here. I've had to fix your references edits once, and someone else has had to do the same when you persisted. Richard Myers 09:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Brun is back up.I guess i shouldn't expect more.And no, I'm not brand new here-only new to the technical side of thing.Remember content? Scholarship?are either of you vaguely familiar with either one?I was the first one to point out that Keroauc didn't inspire Emporer of The North- and of course that got changed back for a while.And the SUBSTANTIAL issue with the references is that you haven't read them and don't know what they say.Anderson's book in paticular emphasis Hobos as workers-and yet the material you can claim he references is ONE condescending paragraph to the effect that Hobos saw themselves as workers-and before largely unregistered people started howling on the talk page, even that wasn't there. (Power cedes nothing without a demand, remember?)There is a labor history aspect to this thing you seem oddly indifferent to-or you would have changed that a long time ago.So now you have the multiple refernces you need to get the page unflagged-but one runs contrary to its conclusions, the other isn't used.Together, they reference less than a quarter of the article,but no one reading it wouldn realize that. And no, I'm not interested in learning to edit here-I couldn't justify helping legitimize this project.Homeguard 5:48 est fri.