Talk:HMS Revenge (1577)

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[edit] Legend and true facts.

This article is a mixture of legend, English 19th century historians and true facts. The Revenge fought "only" against 4 Spanish warships galleons because Admiral Alonso del Bazán couln´t use more of his ships, being the English ship completely surrounded: one on each side, firing at point-blank (The "San Felipe" and the much samaller "San Bernabé")and trying to board her, one across her stern ("La Ascensión") and another across her bow(...) The rest of the Spanish fleet, 55 ships, sailed around without a gap to get into the fight. The Spanish captains were so anxious in capturing the famous "Revenge" that two ships collided heavily and sunk afterwards, one ("La Ascension") very damaged after the heavy fire from the Englih ship.(...) The "Revenge" surrended at dawn after "only" ten hours battle (Grenville seriously wounded by a musket shot in the head and only 60 crew survivors, most wounded) with more than 800 cannon shots impacts, 2 metres of water in her hull and the admiration and respect of the whole Spanish fleet. ==And the storm... there were no storm at all!, the Treasure Fleet sailed by protected by the Armada soon after.You can read it at the complete Treasure Fleet voyages records on the web. --Ruben (talk) 09:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Armament

The Article states that 'Revenge' carried 46 guns 'on a single gun-deck'- I beg to differ. There is a depiction of a compatible ship contained in the 'Fragments of ancient English shipwrighty'. There may be only one FULL covered gundeck, but the guns are in fact arranged on two decks, with some guns located afore and aft, as well as in the bulkheads on the main deck. As for the "tale"- the 'Revenge' effectively challenged an entire fleet, allowing the remainder of the English fleet- which was far from fit for any fight- to escape. Grenville must have been aware that he would be fighting them one by one- but that goes under the heading 'tactics': The idea is, after all, to find a way to attack a superior enemy with an inferior force. But he must have also been aware that his ship would sustain damage, and that- with the damage mounting- it would be likely that he would have to fight ship after ship without being able to disengage. Brave, but ultimately suicidal- and not simply a story, either. The truth is as always somewhere in the middle...213.94.146.59 16:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I have The Last Fight of the Revenge, but am taking too long to get around to editing this article. The book pretty much portrays Grenville as a courageous, arrogant nutter. But what's most interesting is the account of the Spanish preparations for battle: they came within an ace of destroying the English fleet, and were frustrated by sailing delays caused by faulty rigging on their new super-galleons. The Revenge was snared probably because of necessary delays in getting the crew back on board. There was no sacrifice - the English fleet had just evaded the Spanish pincer movement, and Grenville saw he was trapped and tried to charge out. The account of his fight is interesting - mixture of in-your-face cannon fire and nervous sniping. I'll get around to this, I swear.--Shtove 20:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Right, only 20 guns were on the gun deck. For an excellent and more complete description of Revenge, go to http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/renaissance/revenge/revenge.aspx This article should be revised to include a description of the "race-built" galleon, which Revenge surely was.

Other points:

Matthew Baker's first name is spelled with a double t. (See my discussion in Mathew Baker) Also the Revenge of 1577 did not carry the designation HMS, because that designation was not used until after the Restoration in 1660, and she was sunk long befort that. I understand Wikipedia prefers to 'backdate' this designation for consistency purposes, but it should be clarified early in the main article.Tvbanfield 15:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)