Talk:HMS Ark Royal (91)

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What are "16 4.5-inch/45-caliber guns"? Moriori 02:45, Feb 25, 2004 (UTC)

A little clearer? —Morven 07:25, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Morvem, I believe Moriori may be referring to Ark Royals anti-aircraft machine guns? Capt.Nero

16 of 4.5 inch diameter 45 calibres long. GraemeLeggett 08:21, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Court Martial of Ark Royal's Captain, 1941

In the BBC 2's program "Shipwreck Ark Royal" at 8 pm this evening (12/02/06) a very short reference was made about 2 minutes from the end saying that the captain was court martialled. Can enyone confirm that? Was he convicted? What was the charge?

Steve K. Thanks.

See below for clues as to the reason for the court martial. The charge would probably have been "Hazarding his ship". There appears to be no public record of the result but these proceedings were normally a formality to establish the facts and produce a definitive report.

Damage Report - Ark Royal

HMS Ark Royal was torpedoed by U-81 on November 14th, 1941. A single g7e torpedo struck the ship on the starboard side, abreast of the Island. This position was the worst possible in that, being dead midships, it was where the list caused would be greatest and its position relative to the transverse bulkheads was such that four main compartments plus over 106 feet of the ship's starboard bilge was immediately subject to flooding.

The enemy torpedo was running very deep and, at the time, there was some speculation that it may have used a non-contact (magnetic) exploder. This was later discounted on grounds that the damage inflicted by the hit was not as extensive as, nor was it of the type typical of, under-the-keel hits.

The explosion opened a hole 130 feet long by 30 feet deep, the size being increased by the time taken to bring the ship to a halt, resulting in additional hull plating being peeled off. This resulted in the starboard boiler room, air spaces and oil tanks flooding as did the main switchboard and the lower steering position. The starboard power train was also knocked out by the hit but the port and centerline trains kept functioning.

Some of the torpedo blast vented upwards through a bomb trunk forward of the Island. The ship whipped violently with the explosion which caused the fully-loaded torpedo-bombers on the flight deck to be hurled into the air. The ship however, showed very little shock damage internally and her masts remained standing. The Ark Royal (immediately after the explosion) took on a 10 degree list that increased to 18 degrees within 20 minutes.

Due to the flooding of the switchboard, communications within the ship were lost, explaining the delay in bringing the ship to a halt. At this point the Captain decided to evacuate the ship. All personnel were withdrawn from the machinery spaces and assembled topside in order to determine who should leave the ship and who should remain on board. As a result of this action, damage control measures were only initiated 49 minutes after the hit, the flooding having been uncontrolled for this period. During this critical period, the centerline boiler room started to flood from below. During the evacuation of the machinery spaces several covers and armored hatcheswere left open, allowing the flooding to spread further than otherwise would be expected.

As the ship listed further, water came in through the uptakes of the starboard boiler room, flooding over into the centerline, and later into the port, boiler rooms. This flooding further reduced the area through which the funnel gases could escape, causing severe local overheating and fires.

One hour and 19 minutes after the torpedo hit, all power within the ship failed. Meanwhile, most of the crew had been ordered to evacuate the ship. Those that left the ship included the entire staff of shipwrights and key members of the electrical staff, depriving the damage control crews of much-needed expertise. There were still further delays before the repair crews returned to the machinery spaces and attempts at counter-flooding started.

Only half of the available compartments on the portside were flooded, (which reduced the list to 14 degrees) because there was a lack of specialist expertise in the damage control parties. To make matters worse, the flooding valves were not then closed, so the water in the counterflooded units was gradually expelled as more water entered the starboard side of the ship.

Flooding and the loss of feedwater had already shut the ship's power-plant down. Since all the generators were steam-powered, this deprived the ship of electrical as well as motive power. The ship's engineers fought to get the plant back on line despite the rising floodwaters.They won that battle five hours and 34 minutes after the torpedo hit when the portside boiler room was lit off.

However, by that time, the list had increased to 18 degrees and the flooding was starting to spread across the ship's boiler room flat. This was an uninterrupted compartment running across the whole width of the ship, making the entire area of the machinery spaces vulnerable. The efforts made by the engine room crews to restore power were futile. The boiler room flat flooding forced the plant to be shut down again.

Progressive flooding now caused the list to increase rapidly. The list reached 20 degrees 11 hours and 4 minutes after the hit and touched 27 degrees an hour and a quarter later. At this point, the abandon ship order was again given. All crew were off the ship at 0430hrs, 12 hours 19 minutes after the hit, at which time the list had reached 35 degrees.

HMS Ark Royal capsized and sank at 0619hrs after the list reached 45 degrees. Although the ship had been designed with a great reserve of buoyancy, this had been allowed to dwindle away and an invaluable warship had been lost.

After the Second World War, the loss of Ark Royal was investigated. The conclusion drawn was that, on a target of 22,000 tons, the provision of an effective anti-torpedo scheme was difficult.

However, when a comparison with the Yorktown was held it was demonstrated that it was possible, and that the Yorktown had only sunk when all her reserve buoyancy had been exhausted.

The primary cause of the loss of Ark Royal was held to be the inexperience and poor judgement of those responsible for damage control and their lack of initiative. Proper damage control measures were not undertaken in good time nor was action to tow the ship to Gibraltar, less than 25 miles away undertaken promptly.

The torpedo hit on Ark Royal was serious but put the ship in no immediate danger of sinking The prompt application of counterflooding and standard damage control procedures would have saved the ship.


The Investigation also concluded that there were a variety of design factors contributing to the loss:

The uninterrupted boiler room flat was a significant error that was immediately rectified in the Illustrious and Indefatigable class. The adoption of a double hangar had forced the use of cross-deck uptakes low in the ship adding to vulnerability. The reliance on steam generators was also an error and diesel generators were back-fitted to the armored carriers. The power train design itself was strongly criticized.

Thanks. Steve K.

[edit] Successful Good Article Nomination

According to the good article criteria, I have passed this article. Some useful suggestions I can give include a copyedit (from WP:MHL, and an A-Class review from WP:MILHIST before an attempt at FAC. Also, if you have an opportunity, please consider reviewing an article here. -MBK004 01:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name?

What is the significance/origin of the name "Ark Royal"? Can this be added to the article, please? Johntex\talk 18:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The name is taken from the first ship, HMS Ark Royal (1587). The 'Ark' part was chosen by Walter Raleigh and ships usually took the name of the owner, so she was 'Ark Raleigh'. The government then purchased her for the navy, and since the crown was the owner and no longer Raleigh, she became 'Ark Royal'. All subsequent ships have been named after this one. However the reason why a ship may receive a certain name can vary and be based on speculation. HMS Ark Royal (1914) had been an early seaplane carrier so perhaps the Admiralty wanted to perpetuate the name in connection with naval aviation, but this is OR on my part. For a similar example it was decided to name the current HMS Ark Royal (R07) after the previous HMS Ark Royal (R09) was scrapped, to try to ease public anger at the loss of Britain's fleet carriers to budget cuts. While that Ark Royal had probably been named after this Ark Royal because of her fame. Since this article is about this specific ship, I don't think this is the place to go into a discussion on the origin of the name with regards to this lineage, since for the most part it's unsourced and not directly relevant. One way to get to it is to follow the 'other ships' link to see where the name comes from. Or it could be briefly outlined in a note. Benea (talk) 18:33, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rediscovery

These findings seemed to absolve Ark Royal’s captain of blame for failing to save her.

That's unwarrented, IMO. E.g. no damage control for 49 minutes after the hit. The fact that the currents at the time prevented her being moved to Gibralter is one thing, but she might not have sunk in the first place had damage control promptly occurred.

Toby Douglass (talk) 09:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I think you have misunderstood this section. The findings of the investigation were 'The sinking of the Ark Royal was shown to be only a matter of time once the damage had been done.' So she would have sunk even if damage control measures were carried out promptly, in other words the torpedo hit was fatal. The fact that Maund had failed to save the ship was not his fault, no captain could have saved Ark Royal. That's not to say that Maund was guilty for not having initiated procedures at once, and indeed the board of inquiry condemned him for not having done so. But the ultimate sinking was not due to Maund's failure to do so. Benea (talk) 10:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Aircraft

Why did the RN not deploy naval version of the Hurricane or the Seafire on this ship?

becasue she was sunk before the Seafire was widely used, adn the naval Hurris were mostly used on CAM or MAC ships, rather than fleet carriers I should think. David Underdown (talk) 15:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bismarck's predictors

The suggestion that BISMARCK's predictors could not track Swordfish should be removed. Swordfish dropped torpedo at the same speed as other torpedo bombers of the era, the fragility of torpedoes being the determining factor. Also Swordfish were somewhat faster than the towed targets used for AA practice.

Skeltonp (talk) 19:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC) Peter Skelton

  • I'm sorry, but I don't see any part of the article that suggests Bismarck could not detect the aircraft. -- saberwyn 21:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)