Talk:HMAS Sydney (1934)

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[edit] March 2008, found

The Finding Sydney Foundation has released a sonar image of the wreckage. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 01:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The sonar images from the Finding Sydney Foundation "press room' CAN be used reproduced under the terms of the Foundation's legal information. Images of the Sydney are here. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 02:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
No, they may not:
“ The Finding Sydney Foundation or other noted copyright must remain on all reproductions of Materials from this Web Site.

You may download, store and use the Materials for your own personal use and research or that of your firm or company. You may not republish, retransmit, redistribute or otherwise make the Materials available to any other party or make them available on any website, on-line service or bulletin board of your own or of any other party or make them available in hard copy or on any other media without HMAS Sydney Search Pty Ltd CAN.096 017 275 and The Finding Sydney Foundation’s express prior written consent.

 ”

Socrates2008 (Talk) 03:19, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Keep reading further down the same page.
“ The Material (including photographs) available in the "Press Room" section of this Website may be used/reproduced by your organisation (unless stated otherwise within the content description) subject to the terms and conditions set out in this Legal Section AND any Material (including photographs) which you use/reproduce must credit the source as "The Finding Sydney Foundation" and, as an option, you may also link the source statement with the website address http://www.findingsydney.com/. ”

203.7.140.3 (talk) 04:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] HMS Phaeton?

Sydney is described as being laid down on the 8th July 1933 as HMS Phaeton and then being purchased by the Australian Government, to then be renamed Sydney. She was launched on 22 September 1934. Does this then mean she was scheduled to be named Phaeton but didn't actually receive the name? Does this also mean she therefore never carried the name as she was never launched as the Phaeton? Ozdaren (talk) 10:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Someone fix this

HMAS Sydney was a modified Leander-class light cruiser of the Royal Australian Navy. The ship had great success in the first years of World War II, but controversy and mystery surrounds the loss of Sydney and her crew in November 1941. Her sinking with all hands represents the greatest ever loss of life in an Australian warship; Sydney was also the largest vessel of any country to be lost with all hands during the war.[2]

It was announced on 16 March 2008 that the wreckage of the German vessel which sank HMAS Sydney, the auxiliary cruiser HSK Kormoran, had been found on the night of 14 March 2008.[3] On the next day, 17 March 2008, the discovery of the wreck of HMAS Sydney was announced by Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.[4] Sydney was located on 15 March 2008, 150 kilometres (81 nmi) from Shark Bay and 22 kilometres (12 nmi) from the location where the Kormoran was found.

There's no longer a mystery, and the dates as currently given are a bit jumbled. •Jim62sch•dissera! 19:44, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not a GA review

There are many paragraphs without in line citations, as required at GA level in practice. Presumably these are based on the books in "Further reading", but these will need to be looked at to give specific references.--Grahame (talk) 07:11, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm on the case. Socrates2008 (Talk) 10:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi, saw this on the GAN, just a small note: I looked at the article using Internet Explorer (I know a lot users use Mozilla), the sonar pic clashes with the first 3 refs in the "refs" section. Ryan4314 (talk) 19:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Fixed, thanks. Socrates2008 (Talk) 21:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
No problem pal, maybe you could check out a ship article I rewrote recently, HMS Cardiff (D108). Ryan4314 (talk) 21:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry mate, just had a look again, I don't think it's quite fixed. I took a screen of it for you here ( Image:Sydney pic for Socrates.jpg ). I think it's the image sandwich that's doing it, maybe one of those two pics needs to go, hmmm tough choice. Ryan4314 (talk) 21:58, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Swapping the images seemed to have sorted it now, thanks. Socrates2008 (Talk) 09:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ship class

I've seen one or two texts refer to Sydney's class as a "Perth-class" light cruiser. "Leander-class" was the original Royal Navy design, while "Amphion-class" was an upgraded Leander, originally intended for the Royal Navy. However HMS Amphion was never commissioned into the Royal Navy - indeed none of the other ships in the class were, as they were purchased by the RAN. So is "Perth-class" the correct designation, or just something someone assumed, given that HMAS Perth (ex-HMS Amphion) ended up being the first ship in the class? Socrates2008 (Talk) 09:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Royal Australian Navy calls Sydney and her two sisters 'Modified Leander Class Light Cruisers' at [1]. I'd suggest that this is probably the best name. --Nick Dowling (talk) 09:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

"Perth Class" is one of several correct common descriptions. If you read the battle reports by Captain Detmers of HSK Kormoran he apparently said that when first sighted on 19 November 1941 that HMAS Sydney was identified as a "Perth Class" cruiser. Now either he said it or the investigator or translator at the time in late 1941 translated it that way. So in 1941 one or both navies called her "Perth Class". None the less I agree, leave the name alone. (Lanyon (talk) 01:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC))

Given that the modified Leanders had two funnels instead of one large funnel they had a distinctly different appearance. So for identification purposes it made sense to list them as a class of their own in the ID-books to avoid confusion. Nevfennas (talk) 09:52, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photos of wreck

Finding Sydney Foundation have now released photos of the deck and turrets.[2] 203.7.140.3 (talk) 00:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Here are the photos from the Press Room. These CAN be used with acknowledgement under the same conditions as the sonar images. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

[edit] On hold

This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. I have a few issues at the moment

Refs
  • Refs, we need page numbers for the refs.
Factual issues
  • What is the displacement unit? Gross tons, displacement, tons etc...
  • This problem and some others with the class were fixed in HMAS Hobart, : What were the other problems, that is a very vague sentence.
  • How long were the sea trials?
Images
  • Check the legal status of Image:HMAS Sydney Sonar Image.jpg. Up for deletion on Commons.
    • Moot point now, it has been deleted. Woody (talk) 13:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
MOS
  • ndashes, and mdashes see WP:DASH
  • Make sure you are consistent with date formatting, you have missed a couple of links.
Prose
  • Merge the first two paras in the WWII deployment section.
  • Merge the last two paras in the WWII deployment section.
  • Merge the "then turned around to head back to Fremantle.


Sydney was scheduled to arrive back in Fremantle in the afternoon " paragraphs.

  • Move "The wreck of the Sydney will be protected under the 1976 Historic Shipwrecks Act[25] and be treated as a war grave.[26]" to the bottom of the first paragraph of that section. (after ...of water.)

So, some work to do, leave a note on my talk when you have finished. I will pop back in a couple of days. If the issues aren;t dealt with in 7 days, then it will be failed. Thanks. Woody (talk) 17:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Passed

Excellent work. Before FAC, I would consider rejigging the refs further; I have not seen the subheadings used before. That is not to say they are not allowed under the FAC though. Well done overall. Woody (talk) 13:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks v much. FYI, reference headings cloned from Arnison BTW, I believe your date format edits go against the international date format used in this Australian article. Socrates2008 (Talk) 13:21, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
I formatted the dates in the lead per the most common one in the article. The ones in the Lead were different to everywhere else in the article. What you need to have is a consistent format.
About the refs, I would check to see what FAs use, if you were going to go down that route. See AHS Centaur for what I commonly see at FAC. Or look at some of the more recent additions to Wikipedia:SHIPS#Featured articles Woody (talk) 13:27, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
It would be a shame not to include some of the ROV photos before FAC. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 04:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
The problem is that the copyright does not allow them to be modified, and Wikipedia won't accept them on this basis. Socrates2008 (Talk) 09:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
They can be uploaded onto Wikipedia (not Wikicommons) if a reasonable case for fair use is made. Given the high importance of photos of the wreck and the obvious impossibility of free photos of this ever becoming available there should be no problem with this approach. --Nick Dowling (talk) 10:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
See Image:HMAS Sydney wreck, 64.jpg. Woody (talk) 11:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lifeboats

Lifeboats have been found near the wreck.[3] 203.7.140.3 (talk) 04:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More photos

Check out the latest batch from the Finding Sydney Foundation press room.[4][5] 59.167.40.126 (talk) 13:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Additional sources

Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, Completed Inquiry: The loss of HMAS Sydney.[6] I think a summary of this would be important in getting FA status.

The Sinking of HMAS Sydney: A Guide to Commonwealth Government Records by the National Archives of Australia.

An episode of ABC TV's Rewind had an item about the search of archival records about the Sydney in 2004.[7] 203.7.140.3 (talk) 00:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)